Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I see now. Thanks.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Amen. Christ, the author and finisher of our faith.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

My husband says that Christianity is Judaism with a happy ending.

I like that one, too. 8~)

[Quix]

So, your assessment is wrong that we don't trust the Church Fathers conveniently . We do trust them when they are united and don't trust them when they are not united with the teachings of the Church

==================================

.
.

Which being interpreted means . . .

IT IS INCONVENIENT TO CHURCH FANTASIES

WHEN THE CHURCH FATHERS DISAGREE

WITH VATICAN FANTASIZED DOGMA.

So, we DON'T trust them, then.

WE ONLY TRUST THEM WHEN THEY AGREE
WITH VATICAN FANTASIZED DOGMA.

How
CONVENIENT!

[D-fendr]

I’m not talking about people’s stories. I just want to know what you think is the reason why one man accepts Christ and another doesn’t.

And I'm just saying, tell me the men's stories or I can't try to give you an answer.

[Quix]

I think they must have missed classes

Mockery 101
Mockery 201
Mockery 301

in the VATICAN ALICE IN WONDERLAND SCHOOL OF DISCIPLESHIP AND REALITY MANGLING.

They’ve just taken a workshop or maybe 2 here and there.

I think they need more practice before they hit the road.

[Quix]

I LOVE YOUR HUMOR AND WIT.

I think you need to write that car trip up for some RC church blog or paper or some such.

Or better yet, a children’s book.

[D-fendr]

Christianity is Judaism with a happy ending.

Good one. Here's one of my favorites:

An old Jewish man, revered by his community dies. Everyone mourns and talks of his long, happy and righteous life. He gets to Heaven; he's wailing, tears flow down his face in rivers.

St. Peter can't console him, calls God over.

God says, "My child, what causes you such pain and anguish?"

"I did my best to love you, God," the old man says.

"Yes," God replies, "you did your best."

I was honest in all my dealings, I gave to the poor, I welcomed the stranger, I observed the Sabbath, everything, studied the Torah.."

"Yes, my child, but what what travails you so?"

"It is my boy, my son," the old man answered, "my only son - he ran off and became Christian."

"Ahh," God sighed, "I know just how you feel."

[Quix]

Yeah. There was a lot sobering in that article.

I was saddened yet again.

[Quix]

The link was included.

Let me find it again for you. I goofed in not previewing that part enough to correct it. I could scroll right and read it, however.

Here’s the link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Okay. How about this.

Two twins were raised in the same household, by the same parents. For all intents and purposes, their “stories” are remarkably similiar. What happened to one, happened to the other.

Yet one becomes a believer in Jesus Christ and the other one does not.

What is the difference in these two men? Is one twin smarter, more pious? What accounts for the different choices?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lolol. 8~)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I usually over-slept and missed class.

8~)

[Quix]

No problem.

Happy to carry your load in that dept.

LOL.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It certainly is fun to watch them embrace/dismiss/embrace/dismiss Augustine and dozens of other church fathers who disagree/agree/disagree/agree with them.

[Quix]

Would make a great Monty Python skit . . .

revolving door and all . . .

[Cronos]

If I sell a broken toaster I know to be defective and it catches on fire and burns the house down, am I responsible?

That's the failing point -- God isn't selling anything.

If God knew Satan would fall, and yet He created him anyway, we can safely assume that is the course God has purposed for some reason known to Himself now and to us one day

Again, by saying that God "purposed" this you are ascribing sin to God. Satan being no more than a puppet in this description does not then lead men to sin, but is a puppet in the hands of the evil god who makes his other puppets (humans) sin through the actions of the puppet Satan.

Good point about Isiaih, however Isiah 45 reads completely as

Isaiah 45 (King James Version)

Isaiah 45

 ¹Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

 ²I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

 ³And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

 ⁴For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 ⁵I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

 ⁶That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

 ⁷I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 ⁸Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

 ⁹Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

 ¹⁰Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

 ¹¹Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

 ¹²I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

or in the New International Protestant version as

Isaiah 45 (New International Version)

Isaiah 45

 ¹ "This is what the LORD says to his anointed,
       to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
       to subdue nations before him
       and to strip kings of their armor,
       to open doors before him
       so that gates will not be shut:

 ² I will go before you
       and will level the mountains ^[a] ;
       I will break down gates of bronze
       and cut through bars of iron.

 ³ I will give you the treasures of darkness,
       riches stored in secret places,
       so that you may know that I am the LORD,
       the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

 ⁴ For the sake of Jacob my servant,
       of Israel my chosen,
       I summon you by name
       and bestow on you a title of honor,
       though you do not acknowledge me.

 ⁵ I am the LORD, and there is no other;
       apart from me there is no God.
       I will strengthen you,
       though you have not acknowledged me,

 ⁶ so that from the rising of the sun
       to the place of its setting
       men may know there is none besides me.
       I am the LORD, and there is no other.

 ⁷ I form the light and create darkness,
       I bring prosperity and create disaster;
       I, the LORD, do all these things.

 ⁸ "You heavens above, rain down righteousness;
       let the clouds shower it down.
       Let the earth open wide,
       let salvation spring up,
       let righteousness grow with it;
       I, the LORD, have created it.

 ⁹ "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
       to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.
       Does the clay say to the potter,
       'What are you making?'
       Does your work say,
       'He has no hands'?

 ¹⁰ Woe to him who says to his father,
       'What have you begotten?'
       or to his mother,
       'What have you brought to birth?'

 ¹¹ "This is what the LORD says—
       the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
       Concerning things to come,
       do you question me about my children,
       or give me orders about the work of my hands?

 ¹² It is I who made the earth
       and created mankind upon it.
       My own hands stretched out the heavens;
       I marshaled their starry hosts.

 ¹³ I will raise up Cyrus ^[b] in my righteousness:
       I will make all his ways straight.
       He will rebuild my city
       and set my exiles free,
       but not for a price or reward,
       says the LORD Almighty."

Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” yet in the New International Version reads as "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” The NIV translates the word as “disaster”, The New King James translates it as “calamity” ( 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’ ). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the different definitions, one cannot assume that Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

Similarly Amos 3:6 reads in the KJV as

6Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

yet in the NIV is

6 When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it?

If you read the same in Lamentations 3, in the KJV it reads as:

30He giveth his cheek to him that smiteth him: he is filled full with reproach.

31For the LORD will not cast off for ever:

32But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.

33For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

34To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth.

35To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High,

36To subvert a man in his cause, the LORD approveth not.

37Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

38Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

39Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?

40Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.

The King James Version of Lamentations 3:38 seems to suggest that God speaks both good and evil. However, if one reads the verse in context, the preceding verses indicate that God does not do or approve of evil.

The verse following indicates that people should not complain in view of their sins.

What the verse really is saying that God decrees times of good things and times of judgment.

Lamentations was written by Jeremiah during a time of judgment, when Judah had gone off into exile. Jeremiah was chosen by God to be the prophet to tell Judah to reform or be judged. The people did not believe Jeremiah, and, therefore, fell under God's judgment. In Lamentations 3:38, the word translated "good" is ṭôb The word usually refers to good things as opposed to bad things. The word râ‛âh does not refer to moral evil, but calamities, in this verse. Likewise, the Bible commentaries indicate that the verse refers to God's judgment based upon people's sin

[D-fendr]

What accounts for the different choices?

Honestly, the best I can think of is one has had enough - and I'm not talking about grace - and the other has not. If they are absolutely completely identical in every regard this would happen at the same time.

[D-fendr]

What happened to one, happened to the other.

I should point out that experiences or events are only part of it. Their choices and reactions to these are at least half of it.

[Quix]

Here’s one of the better articles I ran across.

http://roman-catholic-schools.com/RCC_SexAbuse.pdf

It just occured to me, though I don’t think I stated this clearly . . . Silly me . . .

that a ‘relatively’ small percentage of priests being married . . . misstated was grotesque

if so . . . what would

45% of priests being homosexual be?

LESS grotesque?

But all those articles came up in my search about married priests. That’s how that came about, at all.