Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[Alamo-Girl]

Amen. Praise God!!!

[1000 silverlings]

I’m sure more Catholics were bought than Protestants, especially the Italian variety. the Popes had artists on the payroll making them chalices and jewelry and any other geegaw that struck their fancy. And who knows what other services

[sitetest]

Always.

[windsorknot]

And who knows what other services

Please elaborate.

[1000 silverlings]

well you can read the life of Cellini, he was a known homosexual whom the pope at the time protected even after he murdered several people. Then there were the Medicis and their popes supporting many others, especially Michaelangelo, also known for his winsome ways, and Leonardo Da Vinci among others.

[MarkBsnr]

They found two of the pens that were used. Here they are

The Weekly World News confirms the case:

[windsorknot]

I proudly support Michelangelo whose contributions to the art world are rather notable. Leonardo da Vinci is no slacker either.

[OLD REGGIE]

The body of the poem is an allegory, and Elizabeth doesn't appear in it in any guise. The section I quoted is from the dedication (you know, as modern books have rather more modest dedications along the lines of "To my dear friend John"). I no longer have my books from grad school, and Spenser was the easiest to find on the Internet. But there's plenty more of the same type out there.

Archbishop of Canterbury praying to Queen Elizabeth. No! Wait! Pope JP II praying to Mary.

Give it up.

You're looking silly.

[1000 silverlings]

never said they weren’t

[OLD REGGIE]

RM: I am attacked for saying that someone received bad catechesis. May I defend myself and my allegation?

We are told repeatedly that someone knows about the Catholic Church because he was a Catholic.

Your frustration with what "We are told repeatedly" has some merit when considered in it's totality. On the other hand derisively dismissing what an ex-Catholic says about what they were taught and what their Catholic relatives and friends believe as simply "you were poorly catechized" is a simplistic and disengenerous argument.

The fact is, especially by your standards, that the vast majority of Catholics throughout the world are and always have been "poorly catechized".

I certainly hope you have cooled off enough in the last few days to reconsider whether your challenge which follows is realistic by any standards.

If your catechesis was as good as you say, you will be able to translate this:

Verbum caro, panem verum verbo carnem efficit: fitque sanguis Christi merum, et si sensus deficit, ad firmandum cor sincerum sola fides sufficit.

Tantum ergo Sacramentum veneremur cernui: et antiquum documentum novo cedat ritui: praestet fides supplementum sensuum defectui.

Do you honestly believe 1% of the Catholics in the world could pass your test?

Also, I see no valid for your crying to the Religion Moderator over this matter.

[OLD REGGIE]

Whatever happened to unity and consistency of teaching of the Catholic church anyway? If priests are permitted to be married, why is it so pervasive and such pervasive knowledge that Catholic priests are celibate?

Because Mad Dawg didn't tell you the whole story. Maybe he forgot? Maybe he didn't feel it necessary to explain the special conditions involved. Why don't you ask him?

[maryz]

Do you really see no distinction between being paid for your work (which those of us who don’t have trust funds do all the time!) and selling out your principles for money, which you insinuate Spenser did?

[maryz]

Is that bottom picture you? You’re better looking than I thought!

[1000 silverlings]

Let's see, even before I knew it was Spenser, I said that he was a poet who quite possibly had the queen as a patron. That would be some grad school you went to if you want to claim that you have no knowledge that poets, artists, including sculptors, painters, etc. have always been known, especially in Renaissance times, to have patrons. I said nothing about the man "selling out his principles" -- that remark belongs all to you

I also said that Italian artists were more likely to be patronized due to the wealth of the popes, and this is borne out by the examples that I posted. Nice try putting words in my mouth though.

[OLD REGGIE]

Suppose I buy a house and sometime later the seller calls me and says “watch out for that water heater, there’s a problem with the gas line to it”.

I go check the water heater and call him back to say “is the problem with the gas line that there isn’t one because it’s an electric water heater?”

He then starts telling me it used to be his house so obviously he knows it just as well if not better than I do and he’s even got a copy of the plans.

Or perhaps the old water heater was changed out in the interim. (Communion in one kind - Communion in both kinds).

But beyond that, when someone tells me something that I know isn’t true I’d far rather assume that they’re honestly telling me what they believe and were merely misinformed.

You're much too reasonable. :-)

[maryz]

I said nothing about the man "selling out his principles" -- that remark belongs all to you

The insinuation belongs to you -- why else would you dismiss what he wrote as being only for money?

I know about patronage. Quite a similar situation to politicians -- some accept money from those who agree with them and want to support their principles; some sell their votes in exchange for money.

[1000 silverlings]

Well the truth appears to be that he did indeed take the manuscript to court hoping to find a sponsor and he was rewarded with a pension. I didn’t insinuate anything — you are mind reading

[1000 silverlings]

we could always go back to the original kernel that you wanted to make a fuss about:

Do any Protestants today worship QE1? Do we build shrines to her? pray to her? put her into our theology, add her to the Trinity, dress up little statues of her and carry her thru the streets? give her a sceptre in heaven to rule over us? make her the doorway to heaven?

I do believe that was the topic you avoided with your strawman argument

[stfassisi]

LOL! That’s very funny

[OLD REGGIE]

I realize this is going to result in tons more Latin, however, I HATE THE LATIN. I find it arrogant, condescending, obscuring, obsfucating, haughty, cheeky and elitist. English has the largest vocabulary in all of history and plenty words to use to get the most complex or nuanced idea across.

Since there is no such thing as a native Latin speaking cadre in the Vatican all the "pure" Latin documents are necessarilly translations from some other language. This may account for so many "poor" translations over the years.