Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
“Then it isn't the literal Body and Blood of Christ. If it's changed in form, it's changed in form and ought to be detectable.”
That's your view of things. I understand that. I disagree, but I understand. My view is that that's a rather flat, materialist view of things.
“Saying otherwise is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's not possible to have it both ways.”
In your view. It's certainly not possible from a strictly natural view, and it's certainly not possible from strictly natural causes or processes. But the Catholic view is that at the consecration, a supernatural process has taken place. The power of God has caused the bread and wine to cease to be, and for the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ to take its place on the altar. Literally.
But it continues to appear to be bread and wine.
Now, you are free to disagree with what we believe, even to say that it doesn't make sense to you. But equally, I'll tell you that I believe it, and it is what the Catholic Church teaches infallibly, whether you think it's possible or not.
I've had many folks who aren't Christian at all point out the “impossibility” of the Resurrection, of the miracles of Jesus, etc. I understand. What they believe doesn't allow for these things.
All I ask is that, whether you agree with Catholic teaching or not, you at least acknowledge it as it is, rather than as you would wish it to be.
sitetest
Can I besmirch my own mental health? Cause if I can't then I'm not really going to have much to say around here.
I would say the place would be full of crickets but that would probably be besmirching the mental health of everyone so I'm not going to say that.
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Not only do I sincerely hope this is not the case, I would be astounded if I were to be able to fully understand God. Imho, much harm has been done because of the arrogance of man.
It is a clear distinction.
Then please explain, what is the unifying belief in the Gospel that Protestants have that distiguishes them from Catholics.
Simply saying, "Protestants believe the Gospel and Catholics don't," doesn't actually mean anything.
odd for someone to suggest things can’t be both ways, on a thread that deals with God and man in a single being.
I love it when people—who believe in magic, inivsible things, miracles, talking donkeys, and what not—dismiss each others' beliefs as "impossible." LOL!
I understand. I wasn't suggesting that folks “slam the door” in anyone’s face, telling them, “buzz off heretics.”
When the missionaries of various sects, especially the LDS, come to my door, I usually invite them in and offer them a cold drink. And listen. And then make the case why I disagree with them. But I find that we - the missionaries and I - can have civil discussions without denigrating what each of us holds holy. No one refers to the Blessed Sacrament in degrading terms. No one ridicules anyone’s undergarments.
It's true that I haven't converted anyone on the spot, so maybe I'm a failure as a Christian, LOL. But perhaps a seed or two have been planted along the way.
But what I don't do is try to paper over things by saying, “Oh, we just aren't communicating successfully.” In fact, one pair of LDS folks tried to go down this path with me, basically saying, well, you know, perhaps we're talking past each other, maybe we have different frames of reference, we're all praying to the same God, etc.
I told him that I begged to differ. I understood pretty well what the LDS say about the nature of God, and I reject it. The discussion was pointed, but still courteous.
And honest.
sitetest
Perfect!
The changes in the ELCA with the admittance of homosexuals into the clergy was the final reason for me to seek a house of worship closer to home.
With Mrs. LVD being a life long RC, I joined the local church and converted. We are now able to commune together.
WM: ...our belief in The Gospel with no "ands", "buts", or "maybe's".
The distinction is very clear.
Don’t start it even by making fun of yourself because once the subject gets introduced on a thread it spins out of control.
And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
Typical Protestant statement: "BUT that really doesn't make her the mother of God."
Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. (Luke 1:48)
Typical Protestant statement: "BUT that really doesn't mean we should call her blessed."
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)
Typical Protestant statement: "BUT that really doesn't mean that the Church was built on Peter."
Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. (John 6:54)
Typical Protestant statement: "BUT that really doesn't mean that we eat His Body."
And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. (Matthew 26:26)
Typical Protestant statement: "BUT that really doesn't mean that that the Bread is His Body."
It seems clear to me, with no “ands”, “buts” or “maybes”.
My inclination is to do that though, any encounter that I manage to survive in which I don't do that is little short of miraculous.
I'm not suggesting that everyone has to approach this the way I do, even though I'm inclined to do that sometimes also. I also think that in the post to which you are referring I said more than "oh we just aren't communicating successfully". Not a lot more, but then every post doesn't have to be a complete statement of faith.
Right there in scripture.
The only “buts” are the sola scripturas who choose to render YOPIOS on these statements from the Bible.
I call it selective Bible reading! LOL!
For any newcomers: YOPIOS is an acronym for Your Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture.
I need a new subtlety generator because the one I’m using now is far too powerful.
My point was that apparently we are allowed to make fools of ourselves but nobody is permitted to point it out when it happens. We can walk around with our flies undone with no hope of being rescued from further self embarrassment.
Great points.
Which, I personally, consider important for husband and wife! LOL.
Thanks.
You are a treasured Bro.
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