Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
and that famous report by the Roman army that they camped next to one and killed it
INDEED it does go both ways.
Scatterfire!
I neither said nor implied that salvation was a feeling nor do I think it is.
In even the biggest and best hospitals some people do not get well.
Well and plausibly put.
Hmmmmmmm
Wish I could eat popcorn.
What’s the matter, you can’t deal with the information in the article so you try to shift attention to something else to focus on instead???
##############
YUP
That’s enshrined and hallowed in
STATION OF THE WHITE HANKY:
4. ICON TO CHRONICALLY CHANGING THE SUBJECT
. . . with at least a nod and a kiss to these STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY icons:
14. ICON TO THE FANTASIZED DIVINE RIGHT, TO BE CORRECT, PRISTINELY SANCTIFIED & PERFECTLY FLAWLESS IN ALL RESPECTS IN ALL CASES ALL THE TIME, REGARDLESS.
15. ICON TO CHRONIC & OBSESSIVE INCONSISTENCY.
Thar ya go agin
trying to confuse the hapless and uninformed with
solid facts.
lol.
It’s merely an issue because
1.2 billion has been crammed down Proddy’s throats for more than 10 years hereon as though that was the number of practicing authentic Christian RC’s.
Jerks who do that for silly reasons deserve some improved reality testing once in a while.
I don’t see you of that ilk . . . at least most of the time. LOL.
Actually, I think your statistics vis a vis world wide Pentecostals and Charismatics might be a bit askew but I haven’t checked in a long while.
Diverticulosis is a pain in the gut, at least that's why I'm not supposed to eat popcorn. My 8 year old son decided, based upon his massive medical expertise, that since he doesn't want to get it too he should fart constantly.
That's been fun.
HE said IT IS WRITTEN a number of time as a referrant to Scripture as a final authority.
Which time are you referring to?
I guess I don’t get your point.
Sorry.
Mine’s not wanting to bother with the dentures and the still somewhat painful chewing it would entail.
Personally, I support your 8 year old son.
Sounds like a stroke of genius.
He should start a movement. In some cultures it’s as natural as burping or sneezing or yawning.
I’m not REAL familiar with the disease. Is it in remission?
A constant threat? Constant pain?
Yuck.
Prayers in any case.
The number most archeologists and historians arrive at is no more than 7500.
First there is no way the total number of descendants of Jacob could ever approach 6 million with the number of generations available from Levi to the exodus. If we assume that the twelve children of Jacob had 5 children survive to adulthood, and the generation of Kohath, Amram and Moses each had 5 children survive to adulthood, the maximum number of people (men, women and children) descended from Jacob alive at the time of the exodus would be approximately 7500.
In Exodus 12:3, the army of Israel ("gevoriym" or warriors) was compared to the size of Pharaoh’s army of 600 chariots (Exodus 14:7) which brought fear to the Israelites. How could 600 chariots be considered a threat to 600,000 warriors of Israel? Equally puzzling is the fear the Israelites felt at entering the promised land where each city probably contained no more than 5,000 warriors compared to their 600,000.
Another problem is the simple logistics necessary to supply, feed, water and move such a large number. According to the Quartermaster General of the US Army, it would take 1,500 tons of food, 4,000 tons of wood as fuel and 11,000,000 gallons of water each day to supply the basic needs of this group. At 2 tons per cord of wood it would have required 2,000 cords of wood per day. (That is a 256,000 cubic foot pile of wood.) The Sinai isn’t capable of producing any of these in sufficient supply to support your numbers. Another problem is waste disposal and the location of latrine facilities remote enough from the water sources not to present a problem. One need only need look at the desperate conditions of the Khurds following Desert Storm.
A camp of this size would be approximately five miles by five miles square assuming only 1,000 square feet per family. One located in the center of the camp would require a hike of 2.5 miles to use the restroom if it were located outside the as instructed.
Another problem is the estimated population of the nation of Israel compared to the estimated population of Egypt at this time. The entire population of Egypt at the time of the exodus was considerably less than six million. Where did all of the people come from and why didn’t Egypt, an agrarian society highly dependent upon manual labor, collapse in their absence?
The Hebrew text of Exodus 12:41; "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children" reads "c'shesh me'ot eleph rag'liy hagebariym l'vad mitaph". This could also be translated as "about six hundred chiefs (eleph) on foot are the warriors apart from the children". We know have a group of warriors that would find the 600 chariots of Pharaoh a formidable army. If we also assume that each chief (head of the family) included a wife and 5 children we have 6,000 people correlating the previous calculation of descendants from Levi to the exodus. By changing the translation of the word "eleph" to chiefs will also fit the census records of numbers.
Numbers 1:21 the number of the tribe of Reuben was forty-six thousand five hundred. The Hebrew of this passage could also be translated as; "The number for the tribe of Rueben is six and 40 (46) chiefs and 5 hundred". With this alternate translation we have 46 chiefs and 500 family members. When we apply this method to the remainder of the tribes we come to a total number of 598 chiefs and 5,550 others (The standard translation of the complete census is 603,550, if the 3 is changed to a five, a possible error we have 605,550 very close to the 598 (2 short of 600) chiefs and 5550 people. Note, the Septuagint (LXX) does have a change of 5 to a 4 so the error is not out of the realm of possibilities).
In summary, it would appear that the slavery of the Israelites in Egypt lasted 130 years and approximately 7,000 individuals were preached to by Moses at Mt. Sinai.
There is only ONE side.. and then there are the others..
Very astute. And when will you be swimming the Tiber?
nope
You could well be dismissing a valid source. There are many atheists, et al, who are extremely knowledgeable of Scripture and history.
Excellent point. Yet there are many True Believers (tm) who take their theology from those who rebelled against those who rebelled against those who rebelled against those who rebelled against those who rebelled against the Church. And then modify it further.
Actually YES
ST. IRENAEUS OF LYONS (130-202) We have known the method of our salvation by no other means than those by whom the gospel came to us; which gospel they truly preached; but afterward, by the will of God, they delivered to us in the Scriptures, to be for the future the foundation and pillar of our faith. (Adv. H. 3:1) Read more diligently that gospel which is given to us by the apostles; and read more diligently the prophets, and you will find every action and the whole doctrine of our Lord preached in them. (Adv. H. 4:66)
************************************************************************ CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (150?-213?) They that are ready to spend their time in the best things will not give over seeking for truth until they have found the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves. (Stromata 7:16:3)
************************************************************************ ORIGEN (185?-252) In which (the two Testaments) every word that appertains to God may be required and discussed; and all knowledge may be understood out of them. But if anything remain which the Holy Scripture does not determine, no other third Scripture ought to be received for authorizing any knowledge or doctrine; but that which remains we must commit to the fire, that is, we will reserve it for God. For in this present world God would not have us to know all things. (Orig. in Lev., hom. 5, 9:6) We know Jesus Christ is God, and we seek to expound the words which are spoken, according to the dignity of the person. Wherefore it is necessary for us to call the Scriptures into testimony; for our meanings and enarrations, without these witnesses, have no credibility. (Tractatus 5 in Matt.) No man ought, for the confirmation of doctrines, to use books which are not canonized Scriptures. (Tract. 26 in Matt.) As all gold, whatsoever it be, that is without the temple, is not holy; even so every notion which is without the divine Scripture, however admirable it may appear to some, is not holy, because it is foreign to Scripture. (Hom. 25 in Matt.) Consider how imminent their danger is who neglect to study the Scriptures, in which alone the discernment of this can be ascertained. (in Rom. 10:16)
************************************************************************ ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (200?-258) Whence comes this tradition? Does it descend from the Lord’s authority, or from the commands and epistles of the apostles? For those things are to be done which are there written. ... If it be commanded in the gospels or the epistles and Acts of the Apostles, then let this holy tradition be observed. (Ep. 74 ad Pompeium)
************************************************************************ HIPPOLYTUS ( -230?) There is one God, whom we do not otherwise acknowledge, brethren, but out of the Holy Scriptures. For as he that would possess the wisdom of this world cannot otherwise obtain it than to read the doctrines of the philosophers; so whosoever of us will exercise piety toward God cannot learn this elsewhere but out of the Holy Scriptures Whatsoever, therefore, the Holy Scriptures do preach, that let us know, and whatsoever they teach, that let us understand. (Hip. tom. 3, Bibliotheque Patrium, ed. Colonna)
************************************************************************ ST. ATHANASIUS OF ALEXANDRIA* (300?-375) The Holy Scriptures, given by inspiration of God, are of themselves sufficient toward the discovery of truth. (Orat. adv. Gent., ad cap.) The Catholic Christians will neither speak nor endure to hear any thing in religion that is a stranger to Scripture; it being an evil heart of immodesty to speak those things which are not written. (Exhort. ad Monachas)
************************************************************************ ST. AMBROSE OF MILAN* (340?-396) How can we use those things which we do not find in the Holy Scriptures? (Ambr. Offic., 1:23) I read that he is the first, I read that he is not the second; they who say he is the second, let them show it by reading. (Ambr. Offic., in Virginis Instit. 11) ************************************************************************
ST. HILARY OF POITIERS (315-367) O emperor! I admire your faith, which desires only according to those things that were written. ... You seek the faith, O emperor. Hear it then, not from new writings, but from the books of God. Remember that it is not a question of philosophy, but a doctrine of the gospel. (Ad Constant. Augus. 2:8:2) ************************************************************************ ST. GREGORY OF NYSSA (330?-395) Let a man be persuaded of the truth of that alone which has the seal of the written testimony. (De Anima et Resurrectione, 1) ************************************************************************
ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM (315?-386) Not even the least of the divine and holy mysteries of the faith ought to be handed down without the divine Scriptures. Do not simply give faith to me speaking these things to you except you have the proof of what I say from the divine Scriptures. For the security and preservation of our faith are not supported by ingenuity of speech, but by the proofs of the divine Scriptures. (Cat. 4) ************************************************************************
ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM OF ANTIOCH AND BYZANTIUM* (347-407) [The Scripture], like a safe door, denies an entrance to heretics, guarding us in safety in all things we desire, and not permitting us to be deceived. ...Whoever uses not the Scriptures, but comes in otherwise, that is, cuts out for himself a different and unlawful way, the same is a thief. (Homily 59, in Joh. 2:8) Formerly it might have been ascertained by various means which was the true church, but at present there is no other method left for those who are willing to discover the true church of Christ but by the Scriptures alone. And why? Because heresy has all outward observances in common with her. If a man, therefore, be desirous of knowing the true church, how will he be able to do it amid so great resemblance, but by the Scriptures alone? Wherefore our Lord, foreseeing that such a great confusion of things would take place in the latter days, ordered the Christians to have recourse to nothing but the Scriptures. The man of God could not be perfect without the Scriptures. [Paul says to Timothy:] “You have the Scriptures: if you desire to learn anything, you may learn it from them.” But if he writes these things to Timothy, who was filled with the Holy Spirit, how much more must we think these things spoken to us. (Hom. 9 in 2 Tim. 1:9) It is absurd, while we will not trust other people in pecuniary affairs, but choose to reckon and calculate for ourselves, that in matters of far higher consequence we should implicitly follow the opinions of others, especially as we possess the most exact and perfect rule and standard by which to regulate our several inquiries: I mean the regulation of the divine laws. I, therefore, could wish that all of you would reject what this or that man says, and that you would investigate all these things in the Scriptures. (Hom. 13, 4:10 ad fin. in 2 Cor.) ************************************************************************
THEOPHILUS OF ALEXANDRIA ( -412) It is the part of a devilish spirit to think any thing to be divine that is not in the authority of the Holy Scriptures. (Ep. Pasch. 2) ************************************************************************
ST. JEROME* (342?-420) The church of Christ, possessing churches in all the world, is united by the unity of the Spirit, and has the cities of the law, the prophets, the gospels, and the apostles. She has not gone forth from her boundaries, that is, from the Holy Scriptures. (Comm. in Micha. 1:1) Those things which they make and find, as it were, by apostolical tradition, without the authority and testimony of Scripture, the word of God smites. (ad Aggai 1) As we deny not those things that are written, so we refuse those things that are not written. That God was born of a virgin we believe, because we read it; that Mary did marry after she was delivered we believe not, because we do not read it. (Adv. Helvidium) ***********************************************************************
* ST. AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO* (354-430) In those things which are clearly laid down in Scripture, all those things are found which pertain to faith and morals. (De Doct. Chr. 2:9) Whatever you hear from them [the Scriptures], let that be well received by you. Whatever is without them refuse, lest you wander in a cloud. (De Pastore, 11) All those things which in times past our ancestors have mentioned to be done toward mankind and have delivered unto us: all those things also which we see and deliver to our posterity, so far as they pertain to the seeking and maintaining true religion, the Holy Scripture has not passed over in silence. (Ep. 42) Whatever our Saviour would have us read of his actions and sayings he commanded his apostles and disciples, as his hands, to write. (De Consensu Evang. 1:ult.) Let them [the Donatists] demonstrate their church if they can, not by the talk and rumor of the Africans; not by the councils of their own bishops; not by the books of their disputers; not by deceitful miracles, against which we are cautioned by the word of God, but in the prescript of the law, in the predictions of the prophets, in the verses of the Psalms, in the voice of the Shepherd himself, in the preaching and works of the evangelists; that is, in all canonical authorities of the sacred Scriptures. (De Unit. Eccl. 16) ************************************************************************
ST. CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA (380?-444) That which the Holy Scriptures have not said, by what means should we receive and account it among those things that are true? (Glaphyrarum in Gen. 2)
************************************************************************ THEODORET OF CYRRHUS (393?-458?) By the Holy Scriptures alone am I persuaded. (Dial. 1, Atrept.) I am not so bold as to affirm anything which the sacred Scripture passes in silence. (Dial. 2, Asynchyt.) We ought not to seek those things that are passed in silence, but rest in the things which are written. (in Gen. Q. 45) ************************************************************************ ST. JOHN OF DAMASCUS (675?-749?) We receive and acknowledge and reverence all things which are delivered in the law, the prophets, the apostles and evangelists, and we seek after nothing beyond these. (de Fid. Ortho. 1:1:1) ************************************************************************
Sola Scriptura
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