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To: CynicalBear

The simple answer is that we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8), and not by works. However, one has to remember that it is not enough to simply say “I believe”, and then do nothing.

The bible says, “Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather he who does the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21) Therefore, it must be assumed that works are indeed a necessary component of one’s faith. Too many people think that faith means giving God lip service only (”This generation honors me with their lips, while their heart is far from me”, Matthew 15:18), rather than actually doing good deeds for others.

Another thing to remember is that the Jews of Paul’s day had many observances of the law that they had to keep, like not eating pork, ritual hand-washing, not eating meat with blood in it, etc. Paul may have been referring to these ritualistic works when he used the term “dead works” (Hebrews 9:14). In fact, in Romans 3:20, Paul says, “Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin”, a very clear distinction between works of the law and doing good deeds as a result of your faith.

During the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther took it upon himself to change the understanding of the Bible around to fit his own particular theology. Not only did he throw out seven complete books of the Old Testament and parts of two other books, he also implied that Christians are saved by faith alone, because of Romans 3:28, which states “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law”, rather than the way it was taught for over 1100 years. He even inserted the word “alone” into Romans 3:28 when he translated it.

One has to wonder about the wisdom of changing the interpretation of the divinely inspired Word of God to fit your own theology, especially after 11 centuries. The only time you actually do see the words faith and alone together in a sentence is in James 2:24, where James says, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”. (James 2:24)

Finally, I suppose Christ wanted atonement for our sins, since He set it up that way. He made Peter atone 3 times for the 3 denials. The early Church believed in the act of Confession (James 5:16; 1John1:9). Especially important is Acts 2:27 “Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer the Holy One to see corruption.” God cannot be near corruption of sin so we must atone for it before reaching Heaven.

In Apocalypse 20:13 tells us the dead were judged according to their works. Clearly all these passages indicate the Catholic position is correct: works are important in salvation. They have an impact on your salvation. They are required by Christ. Faith is first; works must follow.

Hope that helps you understand the Catholic position. I am signing off this thread now. God bless you.


46 posted on 08/24/2010 6:25:20 AM PDT by Melian ("There is only one tragedy in the end, not to have been a saint." ~L. Bloy)
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To: Melian

I wanted to say that I truly enjoyed our discussion. I do understand the Catholic position but disagree with much of it as our discussion has probably shown you.

Again, thanks for the great discussion, you are well studied and firm in your beleifs and I appreciate that and respect that. God bless!!


47 posted on 08/24/2010 7:01:02 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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