Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Melian

“Christ three times in front of all the Apostles if he really loved Him”

Look at the Greek words Jesus used. The first two times He used the word Agapa which means an unconditional kind of love but Peter answered using the word Phileo or and emotional kind of love. The last time Jesus used the word Phileo which is when Peter appeared upset that Jesus had asked him a third time but this time using the word that Peter had answered with the first two times. Peter was not using the same word that has been translated love that Jesus was the first two times. There is much more to learn here from the different forms of each word used and the different commands Jesus gave to each answer Peter gave but not enough room here.

“There is a personal component to Salvation that requires action/conversion/obedience of us”

There is a very dangerous path taken with this concept. The thought that a person can, of his own accord or effort, atone for sins leads to the belief that one can earn, or be good enough, to please God. If one is to “pay” or “atone” for our sins here on earth it is denying that Jesus has already completely done that. If he did not, and we are still to do that, then His sacrifice was not complete. Of course it is true that there are consequences to our actions, thoughts, and emotions here on earth. At the point that we accept Jesus as our Savior and have the Spirit of God in us there is a separation between our earthly existence and our eternal or spiritual existence.

“. This is Purgatory: the place we go to wipe away the vestiges of guilt and responsibility for our sin”

Here, again, you are stating that Jesus sacrifice was not complete for the atonement of our sins. A concept, that states that WE must atone for the sins that Jesus sacrifice missed.

Purgatory is a word used to describe the place where those who died, who had obeyed all the Old Testament laws went before Jesus “redeemed us all” on the cross. Before Jesus death/sacrifice on the cross the souls of the faithful, under the law, went to Sheol or Hades. The souls of those unfaithful went to Gehanna which was separated from Sheol. Jesus went, when He “descended into Hell/Purgatory/Sheol” with the “keys of Sheol/Hades” to released those faithful to take them with him to heaven. The “holding place” that was Sheol was needed because Jesus had not yet made the perfect sacrifice. Once Jesus died on the cross that sacrifice had been made and there was no more need for a “holding place”. Today, because of the sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb redeemed souls go directly to heaven.

Once again, I will state that to believe that a person needs to atone for his own sins is to deny that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was somehow not complete.

The last point you made was of people calling him Lord. Once again, the original word needs to be looked at. In England, people are referred to as lord. That certainly is different then when we call Jesus Lord. When a person said lord, lord, they were not saying the same as when we call Jesus Lord.


43 posted on 08/23/2010 8:12:33 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies ]


To: CynicalBear

If I say we have a personal responsibility for our behaviours and for atoning to God for our sins, it does not mean Christ’s sacrifice was not enough. It does not mean we can do it alone, without Christ. That is not what I said.

The door to Heaven had been closed to all souls prior to His sacrifice. He opened the door through His death and resurrection. It is our job, as revealed countless times in the Gospels, to choose the right path to walk through that door. We still have free will, even after we have the conversion moment and are “saved.”

We have free will to continue to choose to follow Christ every day of the rest of our lives. We are responsible for those choices for the rest of our lives. Christ’s words make it very clear that how people behave is still critical. We see this in Matt 5 when He speaks of casting off anything that leads you to sin or be thrown into Hell. Why even mention this if they were “saved?”

In Matt 5:19-20 we see that keeping the commandments is critical and we learn that if our justice is not greater than the Pharisees, we shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven. Clearly there are some who believe who will receive harsh judgement.

Finally, in Matt 5:22 He tells us that if we are angry with our brother we are in danger of judgement. Christ says whoever calls someone else a fool shall be in danger of the fires of Hell. He is talking to His disciples here; people who are believe in Him already. Again, clearly, our actions matter even when we believe in Christ as our Savior.

This concept is stated over and over in the New Testament. We are redeemed but we must choose to be worthy of that redemption every day. We must fight for our redemption and “work it out” in fear and trembling. Christ’s many parables highlight this also.

Why did He even tell us all these stories about how to be righteous if sin did not matter after He “saved” us? Why bother to tell us how to behave at all? Because our actions still matter after the moment we believe. Indeed, they matter EVEN MORE.

If we sin after hearing God’s Word, we are like the soil that got the good seed and took root but was plucked away by crows. The good seed, the Word, must be absorbed, nurtured, tended, and carefully grown within us. THAT’s what we are accountable for. If we believe the Word, certain actions MUST follow.


44 posted on 08/23/2010 9:12:21 AM PDT by Melian ("There is only one tragedy in the end, not to have been a saint." ~L. Bloy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson