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To: Melian

First off: Any idea that leads one to believe that a person has to earn any part of their salvation is saying that Jesus did not do a complete job by his death and resurrection. If Jesus didn’t fully earn our salvation for us and offer it to us through grace by faith then He wasn’t the PERFECT SACRIFICE was he.

Might I suggest you go read the beginning Revelations 14:13 and see who it was talking about in that passage. The 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel during the last days. Put things in context before you use them to justify what you have been told.

Revelation 20:12
Again, go read the chapter from the beginning. Pay attention to verse 6 (Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.)
The chapter is talking about those that resisted the Anti Christ prior to the thousand year reign of Jesus after Armageddon.


26 posted on 08/21/2010 11:31:35 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

No, that’s not what I’m saying. Christ did do a complete job of salvation by His death on the Cross. His complete act allowed salvation to even be possible. Up until then no one was entering Heaven.

He made it pretty clear that one’s behavior had an impact on one’s salvation. He speaks about how narrow the gate is. His many teachings center on our behaviors. On the road to Emmaus, the disciples, obviously already believers, did not recognize Him until they took the action of breaking bread and sharing the Eucharist. They already believed but could not see Him as He really is until the celebrating of the Eucharist.

As I said before, the unfruitful fig tree is a good example of Christ’s teaching that we must produce good “fruit.” It’s not enough, according to Him, to be a beautiful, strong tree. We must PRODUCE.

The following passages show the insight behind Catholic teaching on works:

Grace can be lost through mortal sin: 1 John 5: 15-17, Rom 11: 21-22, Heb 10: 26-311, 2 Peter 2: 20-22.

The works of sin can still bring about eternal death: Mt 25: 31-46, Rom 2: 1-13, 1 Cor 6: 9-11, 1 Cor 10: 6-13, 2 Cor 5: 9-10, Gal 5: 13-21, Gal 6: 6-10 and Rev 22: 12-15.

When we take all these passages together, along with Christ’s parables and the Beatitudes, and Christ’s comments on hell, it becomes clear that God expects us to LIVE as we believe. We can’t just say we believe and not follow Christ in our daily life.

Thanks for your suggestion that I read more of Revelations. I’ve read them in their entirety many times. What I read in Revelations convinces me our actions are an integral part of our salvation.


27 posted on 08/21/2010 12:25:04 PM PDT by Melian ("There is only one tragedy in the end, not to have been a saint." ~L. Bloy)
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To: CynicalBear
Any idea that leads one to believe that a person has to earn any part of their salvation

Saying that unrepented grave sin sends someone to hell is not the same as saying that they have to earn their salvation, sorry. Nobody can earn salvation. God may permit you to throw it away, however, the same way a father can permit a son to separate himself from the family and walk away (cf the parable of the Prodigal Son).

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. -- 1 Cor 6:9-10

30 posted on 08/21/2010 1:09:27 PM PDT by Campion
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