[verdugo]

I am not a sedevacantes.

It's hard to know what JPII and B16 believe, as they never come out and say it clearly.

Look, IF "nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ", does not mean what it says (ALL the DOGMATIC definitions on EENS say "nobody" in slightly different ways), then, NOTHING is what it says. AND, our whole religion is built on sand. If that clear definition does not mean what it says, then how can we judge what JPII & B16 have unclearly said or not said? Who knows what they believe? I don't bother with analyzing them, we had the truth handed to us long ago.

[armydoc]

It's hard to know what JPII and B16 believe, as they never come out and say it clearly.

What is unclear about this statement?:

For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation.

If that clear definition does not mean what it says, then how can we judge what JPII & B16 have unclearly said or not said? Who knows what they believe? I don't bother with analyzing them, we had the truth handed to us long ago.

I am astonished. You don't bother analyzing your Pontiff, the man you claim is Christ's representative on earth? You don't know what he believes? If B16 is a heretic, then the only logical position is sedevacantism.