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To: YHAOS

Who? What is the date of the oldest copy? Where is corroborating evidence and what does "great many' and "large numbers" mean? The Bible speaks of the slaughter of the innocent children by Herod, yet there is no historical evidence of any such event, even in highly detailed accounts of Herod's life by writers such as Josephus. So, take ancient accounts with a grain of salt because they are usually exaggerated and even outright myths.

Other "evidence," suggests that Christian the Apostles and Apostolic Fathers were targeted, such as St. Paul, St. Irenaeus, St. Polycarp, St. Justin Maryr, etc. It's all legendary. Nero's persecution of Christains in Rome in 65 AD is indistinguishable from the targeting of the Jews, since Christians and Jews were not distinct groups (Christians still attended synagogues in Paul's time) in Rome in 65 AD.

Christian martyrdom in Israel is estimated at mere 2,000. And records of the seven-year pogrom of Christians (303 to 311 AD), incorrectly blamed mostly on Diocletian,  is said to have claimed approximately 3,000 lives, a figure one must seriously scrutinize since the laws also targeted Manechaenas as "Christians" and sects. This was the biggest persecution ever. And even then, the clergy rather than the populace were targeted.

So, yes, the myth of some enormous persecution and reign of terror is a Christian myth, among many, an exaggeration that is accepted by most Christians as "fact" without even reviewing the facts. The  "persecutions" were a series of laws demanding pagan worship and loyalty to the Caesar the way we expect allegiance to the country. This did not start until the middle of the 3rd century, and ended by the first decade of the 4th, spanning approximately 71 years. (240 - 311 AD).  

Christian persecutions mostly affected the eastern side of the empire. Christians, and people thought to be Christians (Gnostics, etc.),  in the Gaul and other western regions were pretty much left unaffected.

714 posted on 09/11/2010 9:32:48 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50
Who? What is the date of the oldest copy?

Tacitus’ Annals, with respect to Nero, speaks of a great multitude torn by dogs, nailed to crosses, or tormented by flames, but I’m sure his historical writings are dismissed as nonsense by the deniers of Christian persecution by Romans. Gibbons speaks with frustration at the lack of specific numbers of Christian deaths at the hands of the Romans (or by their leave), but one would think that the lack of specific numbers of Christian deaths casts as much doubt on “exceedingly small” as it does it does on “large numbers.” Apparently not.

The "persecutions" were a series of laws demanding pagan worship and loyalty to the Caesar the way we expect allegiance to the country.

And was not death the penalty for refusal? My point was that in the persecution of Christians, Roman Might did not prevail. I guess the Deniers’ response is that the Romans didn’t really try very hard.

Christian persecutions mostly affected the eastern side of the empire.

And this means that since it was in the East, it doesn’t count for much?

717 posted on 09/11/2010 3:14:53 PM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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