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To: fortheDeclaration
"The Son was not 'eternally begotten' he was begotten in time. Begotten means to be created, the Word was not created. It is those who teach an 'eternally begotten Son' that are teaching Arianism."

NO! You have it in reverse. We say Begotten not made. It does not mean created! Or Made!

Such a mind was Arius(Arianism), who proposed, instead, that Jesus was a sort of godlet, not God with a capital “G.”

He preached that Jesus was sort of like a super archangel: greater than all other creatures (and so, “divine” in comparison with the rest of creation), but not actually God. This seems abstract, but it actually constituted an assault on the most fundamental basics of the Christian faith, because if Jesus is not God, he can neither save nor give eternal life (that is, the life of God) to us.

The Council of Nicaea, in resolving the controversy, insists (following St. John) that Christ is “begotten, not made.” Why? For the same reason we insist that our children are not the same as statues.

An artist makes a statue; he begets a son. To beget is to share your nature with another being. God made human beings. But God the Father begets the Son eternally. The Son shares his Father’s nature. And since the nature of the Father is to have no beginning, the Son also has no beginning. He is begotten from all eternity by the Father. In him is eternal life from the Father, and, therefore, he can share that life with us creatures.

For eternal life originates only in God, not in creatures.

The eternity of Christ is a stunning thing to contemplate: that this manual laborer who stands before us with dirty feet, calloused hands, and a rough up-country accent is, in fact, the Being who has existed from all eternity in the blinding light of the heart of God, sharing completely in his glory and showing forth the express image of the Holy One who hurled all the galaxies into being.

It is rather a lot to take in.

It’s no wonder the Son “emptied himself,” as Paul says, becoming human and dimming his splendor so that we could see him with our mortal eyes. And yet, even dimmed, he remains the Light of the world.

When you look at the sun, do you see the sun or the light from the sun? Obviously, to do the one is to do the other. Christianity says the same thing is happening when you look at Christ. If you’ve seen the Son, you’ve seen the Father, for the Son is the exact representation of the Father, just as sunlight carries with it the exact representation of the sun from which it came. That is why the creed calls Jesus “Light from Light.”

http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/17439/

44 posted on 07/23/2010 9:21:06 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace
["The Son was not 'eternally begotten' he was begotten in time. Begotten means to be created, the Word was not created. It is those who teach an 'eternally begotten Son' that are teaching Arianism."]

NO! You have it in reverse. We say Begotten not made. It does not mean created! Or Made! Such a mind was Arius(Arianism), who proposed, instead, that Jesus was a sort of godlet, not God with a capital “G.” He preached that Jesus was sort of like a super archangel: greater than all other creatures (and so, “divine” in comparison with the rest of creation), but not actually God. This seems abstract, but it actually constituted an assault on the most fundamental basics of the Christian faith, because if Jesus is not God, he can neither save nor give eternal life (that is, the life of God) to us. The Council of Nicaea, in resolving the controversy, insists (following St. John) that Christ is “begotten, not made.” Why? For the same reason we insist that our children are not the same as statues. An artist makes a statue; he begets a son. To beget is to share your nature with another being. God made human beings. But God the Father begets the Son eternally. The Son shares his Father’s nature. And since the nature of the Father is to have no beginning, the Son also has no beginning. He is begotten from all eternity by the Father. In him is eternal life from the Father, and, therefore, he can share that life with us creatures. For eternal life originates only in God, not in creatures. The eternity of Christ is a stunning thing to contemplate: that this manual laborer who stands before us with dirty feet, calloused hands, and a rough up-country accent is, in fact, the Being who has existed from all eternity in the blinding light of the heart of God, sharing completely in his glory and showing forth the express image of the Holy One who hurled all the galaxies into being. It is rather a lot to take in. It’s no wonder the Son “emptied himself,” as Paul says, becoming human and dimming his splendor so that we could see him with our mortal eyes. And yet, even dimmed, he remains the Light of the world. When you look at the sun, do you see the sun or the light from the sun? Obviously, to do the one is to do the other. Christianity says the same thing is happening when you look at Christ. If you’ve seen the Son, you’ve seen the Father, for the Son is the exact representation of the Father, just as sunlight carries with it the exact representation of the sun from which it came. That is why the creed calls Jesus “Light from Light.” http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/17439/

The word 'begotten' means 'procreated' 'generated'(Webster 1828)

Jn. 1:1 doesn't say, 'in the beginning was the Son' it says in the 'beginnng was the Word'.

If the Son was eternally 'begotten' it is saying he CAME from the Father-in eternity!

This is Platonic nonsense.

The Plan of God deals with how the three members of the Trinity were going to interact in time.

Hence, the different names given to them in time.

The Son was begotten in TIME 'Thou art my Son, THIS DAY, have I begotten thee' (Ps.2:7)

The 'begetting' of the 'Son' (who is the Word (Rev.19:13) occured in time, not eternity.

Now, the confusion is simply that since we NOW know Him as the Son, that He was always known as the Son, when He wasn't.

48 posted on 07/23/2010 4:28:49 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: johngrace
No one is saying that Christ is not God in the flesh, the second Person of the Trinity.

He just was not the Son in eternity, in eternity He was unbegotten Word, co-equal and co-eternal with the other two members of the Trinity.

A 'begotten Son' in eternity would mean he came from God, instead of always existing with God and as God.

59 posted on 07/23/2010 9:47:26 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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