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To: small voice in the wilderness
I’m saying that if the Catholic Church’s teachings and beliefs outside the Written Word of God, the doctrines, and traditions are on an equal basis as the Written Word of God, they why not include them in the Written Word of God?

But why bother, under the same conjectures?

Peter DID write 2 books.

They were letters. That suggests they were "occasional," that is, prompted by the occasion, by what was happening.

We're tripping over the "sufficient unto the day" and "do not worry what you are to say" models. You seem to be wanting to get it all down ahead of time in hard copy format. Back then we said, "The Lord will provide, 'as on that day and Meribah and Masa' and in the Council of Jerusalem."

Put it this way: Despite what you all say about us, we trust God to provide. You want it all in writing!

Your church believes she has the doctrines and traditions that formed the Church the Body of Christ. There was the time to include them. Wow, I wouldn't put it like that. This is the old depositum fidei notion, right? Maybe the store house is just so rich that it can only be unpacked on a need to know basis.

The Bible in some sense is so elliptical and ambiguous -- as evidenced by the diversity among Sola Scripture groups -- that it sometimes feels like it, by itself, is barely enough. Yet when we engage with it and the God who provided it, we find more than we hoped for -- though not enough to end contention, evidently.

4,146 posted on 07/30/2010 3:39:19 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (But wait! There's MORE! (NOW how much would you pray?))
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To: Mad Dawg
Why bother? Here are a few reasons 'to bother'..

A. Catholic Church Teaches.

1). Peter was the head of the apostles.

B. The Bible Teaches.

1) Christ was the head of the apostles. (John 13:13).

A. 2). The bishops are the successors of the apostles. B. 2)The apostles had no successors, for to succeed them one needed to be a witness of Christ's resurrection. (Acts 1:21,22).

A. 3). The Pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter. B. 3). Peter had no successor.

A. 4). The bishops, with the Pope as their head, rule the universal church. B. 4). Christ, the head of the body, rules the universal church. (Col. 1:18). A. 5). God has entrusted revelation to the Roman Catholic Bishops. B. 5). God has entrusted revelation to the saints. (Jude 3).

A.6). The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the church. B. 6). The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church. (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 John 2:27).

A. 7). The Magisterium is the infallible interpreter of Scripture.B. 7). Scripture is the only infallible interpreter of Scripture. (Acts 17:11).

A. 8) The Pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching. B. 8) God alone is infallible. (Numbers 23:19).

A. 9) The Magisterium alone has the ablility and the right to interpret Scripture. B. 9). Every Christian, aided by the Holy Spirit, has the ability and the right to interpret Scripture. (Acts 17:11; 1 Cor. 2:12-16).

A. 10). Scripture is to be interpreted in the sense in which it has been defined by the Magisterium. B. 10). Scripture must be interpreted in the original sense intended by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 3:14-16). A. 11). The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. B. 11). No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture. (1 Cor. 4:6; Proverbs 30:6).

A. 12). Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God. B. 12). Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35; 2 Tim. 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

A. 13). Scripture and Tradition together are the Church's supreme rule of faith. B. 13). Scripture is the church's only rule of faith. (Mark 7:7-13; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17).

Here are 13 reasons TO BOTHER...

4,176 posted on 07/30/2010 4:26:58 PM PDT by small voice in the wilderness (Defending the Indefensible. The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: Mad Dawg; small voice in the wilderness
Pardon me for being so behind in my responses. I realize your post was made about four hours ago, so bear with me please. I try not to miss anyone's input.

I think you bring up a very important point regarding sola scriptura and evolving revelation. I believe God has revealed his truth to us and has preserved it in a form that we all can access one way or another (reading or being read to, ok?). This doesn't mean that anyone can just pick up the Bible, open it to any section, run their finger down the page, start reading and voila it automatically makes sense. That rarely happens, although some verses are meant to be exceptionally clear. It takes prayer, study, openness to the leading and illumination of the Holy Spirit and time. Christian maturity takes time just has human maturity does. We start out with milk and we grow into meat.

I fully accept that many deep thinking, Godly, theologians spent countless years in their studies, in discussing with each other and in their general agreements with conclusions on doctrines. They helped the entire body of Christ to grow as well in their understanding. But this doesn't mean that ALL such "theologians" were 100% correct in their conclusions. I don't know of any Christian faith that thinks mortal humans were always right no matter how brilliant they were. Biases, prejudices, philosophy, pride are all parts of our makeup. Some were more susceptible than others to those vices and some were more "in touch" with the Spirit than others as well. Even today, we have teachers and theologians that are helping us to understand the deeper things of God. None of us should be so proud as to think we don't need each other in our spiritual walk and growth.

So, my simple point is this. Scripture is our sole BASE of authority. No doctrine should ever contradict what God's word says but sometimes, when specifics aren't "spelled out", God gives us his teachers, pastors, evangelists, etc. to help us in our understanding and we all must rely on his Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth.

4,314 posted on 07/30/2010 7:30:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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