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To: Mad Dawg; Natural Law; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; fish hawk; RnMomof7; Iscool
"I do not see how the "you" is addressed to "Rome." And I do not see how attributing someone's failure to take your view to the the blindness and deafness of the person is NOT an insult and a denigration."

Lest this get wound around the axle, I will keep it short. The observation of a person's inability to percieve another's remarks regarding the Gospel is not an insult or denigration. It is a statement of fact. You are saying this to every non-Catholic by saying the Catholic Church is correct, since it says that all others are wrong. We are not "insulted or denigrated". We just vigorously disagree with this claim and note it is not supported by Scripture.

If we said, "You are a stupid fool." shame on us. That would be insulting, denigrating and making it personal. And, further, it would deny the very statement we seek to make...only God can open eyes to the truth of the Gospel that grace really is "unmerited favor". My job is to present it and let the result be God's alone. One cannot brow beat another into the kingdom. One cannot brow beat oneself into the kingdom.

Rome has peddled the terrible lie that the rescue of a man's soul lies in the hands of the man and of course the hands of Rome. This lie from the pit should be exposed for what it is...a demonic deception, heresy of the highest order. Exposing Rome is not Calvinistic, but the Gospel. Calvin just happened to be one among many that noticed it and raised the alarm. For that we are grateful.

But, to say that only God manages the rescue of a human is simply to describe what the Scriptures claim in no uncertain terms. It may grate on my fragile sensibilities (strike me as paradoxical or "illogical"), but as Paul noted, that's my problem, not an indictment against the truth. And, if one cannot see this, the Scripture goes on to say that the person has not been granted eyes to see or ears to hear, and as such is only reporting a fact.

4,113 posted on 07/30/2010 2:16:10 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
Rome has peddled the terrible lie that the rescue of a man's soul lies in the hands of the man

***********************

Really? I don't recall ever hearing that.

4,114 posted on 07/30/2010 2:18:07 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Dutchboy88
The observation of a person's inability to percieve another's remarks regarding the Gospel is not an insult or denigration. It is a statement of fact.

Actually, no it isn't. All you observe is that we disagree. That is the 'fact'.

To allege an inability is a CONCLUSION drawn with the 'fact' as one of elements in the argument.

There are other possible explanations for our disagreement. Inability of any kind is not the only explanation. Why, I know this is hard to believe, but our disagrement could conceivably come from our having thought it through and reached a different conclusion.

In that case, to attribute our disagreement to blindness is to disrespect the work we did in reaching our conclusion.

You are saying this to every non-Catholic by saying the Catholic Church is correct, since it says that all others are wrong. We are not "insulted or denigrated". We just vigorously disagree with this claim and note it is not supported by Scripture.

Fine. BUT, I do not attribute your disagreement to some spiritual disability or any characteristic of you. YES, I think you are on the wrong side. But I don't say anything about YOU and your array of abilities and disabilities to explain your being on what I take to be the wrong side.

But when I disagree with you, you make a statement explaining (or 'explaining away') that disagreement by characterizing me as having a disability.

I think that makes the case. I see that you may not have intended it as such, but it was not a fact, it was a comment not about the issue but about those who disagree with you on the issue.

You COULD have said, "In our view the disagreement of Papists result from a Spiritual blindness and deafness." But you didn't say that. You said we were blind and deaf.

4,121 posted on 07/30/2010 2:30:02 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: Dutchboy88

INDEED. AMEN. GREAT POST. PARTICULARLY:


Rome has peddled the terrible lie that the rescue of a man’s soul lies in the hands of the man and of course the hands of Rome. This lie from the pit should be exposed for what it is...a demonic deception, heresy of the highest order. Exposing Rome is not Calvinistic, but the Gospel. Calvin just happened to be one among many that noticed it and raised the alarm. For that we are grateful.

But, to say that only God manages the rescue of a human is simply to describe what the Scriptures claim in no uncertain terms. It may grate on my fragile sensibilities (strike me as paradoxical or “illogical”), but as Paul noted, that’s my problem, not an indictment against the truth. And, if one cannot see this, the Scripture goes on to say that the person has not been granted eyes to see or ears to hear, and as such is only reporting a fact.


4,149 posted on 07/30/2010 3:41:26 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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