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Testimony of a Former Irish Priest
BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

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To: smvoice; Quix; metmom; Deo volente; wagglebee
What is so hard to understand about Mary being the mother of Jesus and not the Mother of God?

Let's get this clear, you say:
Mary = Mother of Jesus

But Mary <> Mother of God

i.e. you are saying Jesus <> God

That's wrong.

Just as Jesus Christ's human nature had no father, His divine nature had no mother.

Jesus's two natures were irrevocably "mixed" together, you could not separate the two. The human and the divine were crucified on the Cross. God became man, not half man- half God, but wholly man and wholly God.
6,461 posted on 08/04/2010 10:14:02 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: marbren
You could start a religion, and in this age no doubt you could gather many adherents.

Catholics think reason has a place in religion. The idea that an affliction of the soul could have a material efficient cause is incoherent, I think. Consequently most of your converts would come from non-Catholic populations since incoherence is not a problem for them.

6,462 posted on 08/04/2010 10:16:11 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: marbren
EXACTLY! It is nice to have a standard to fall back on.

You fall back on your book. I'll fall back on God.

6,463 posted on 08/04/2010 10:16:45 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: marbren
So, Our Lord Jesus Christ had a brother? So a sinful child was conceived in Mary's womb?

Oh, Gracious MOI!

Of course, we Catholics NEVER touch the Bible so it's entirely a NEW NOTION that James is referred to as the brother of our Lord. Wow! Are we going to have to re-think everything or WHAT!

But, me, I'm not going to rethink wasting time on this sort of thing.

6,464 posted on 08/04/2010 10:19:44 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: Mad Dawg; bkaycee; smvoice
Mary "brought" Jesus to us,

TRUTH: GOD GAVE His Only Begotten Son to us.

"For God SO LOVED the world, that HE GAVE HIS only begotten SON that whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mary's part: HEAR and OBEY. That's the command for ALL of us - HEAR and OBEY - HIS WORD.
6,465 posted on 08/04/2010 10:22:00 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Mad Dawg; betty boop; markomalley; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; ...
Hmmmmmmmmm.

Denial is a serious thing for all of us at some points in our lives . . .

It is a very serious spiritual as well as psychological problem.

LACK OF PERSONAL INSIGHT

is similarly a huge spiritual and psychological problem.

Is LACK OF PERSONAL INSIGHT a subset of DENIAL or DENIAL a subset of LACK OF PERSONAL INSIGHT. OR are they different labels for different facets of the same thing. That would take some pondering.

WE ARE CALLED TO WARN A BROTHER IN OR HEADED FOR THE DITCH. THAT IS OUR CHRISTIAN DUTY BEFORE GOD.

I remain shocked at the degree of wholsale LACK OF PERSONAL INSIGHT on the part of the vast majority of RC's hereon.

Thankfully, you have a lot of personal insight to a significant degree. Betty Boop seems to be largely awash in personal insight. Mark O Malley has a lot of it.

VERY OCCASIONALLY A FEW of the rest show slight to moderate bits of it.

THAT'S A PRETTY HORRID RECORD, IN MY EXPERIENCE. It is unparalleled by ANY other supposedly heterogeneous RELIGIOUS group I've ever been around or observed.

What is WITH that??? It's an enormous puzzle to me--as psychologist and as sociologist. It's an enormously curious, fascinating puzzle.

Two factors stand out--we are all conservatives . . . I don't have a good clue about how that might contribute to RELIGIOUS DENIAL AND LACK OF PERSONAL INSIGHT.

The RC's demonstrating so much LACK OF PERSONAL INSIGHT are the more industrious posters on the RELIGION FORUM. That must have some influence on it in some part.

Otherwise, I don't have a clue. What results in this picture? I don't know. It's very curious, fascinating. IT's a great puzzle. It's just a very glaring garish picture that is impossible to ignore or pretend it isn't true.

Maybe it's best summarized by THERE'S NO ACCOUNTING FOR TASTE OR RELIGION.

,

6,466 posted on 08/04/2010 10:22:11 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Cronos; madd dawg; MarkBsnr
I'm done with this thread. I have no interest in debating heretics who do not believe that Jesus Christ IS God, not part-man/part-God or whatever other conclusion they derive from their comic books.
6,467 posted on 08/04/2010 10:22:46 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Natural Law; OLD REGGIE
(Do you realize you are beginning to look as thoroughly discredited as Dr. E.?)

LOL.

To be "discredited" by fools is nothing to be ashamed of. It's to be expected. And in the long run, it means nothing.

" I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust." -- Psalm 91:2


"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." -- 1 Corinthians 11:19


6,468 posted on 08/04/2010 10:22:54 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
JESUS PERSISTENTLY

REFERRED TO

IT IS WRITTEN

AS *HIS* CREATOR GOD's

POINT OF AUTHORITY.

I'm happy to FOLLOW JESUS,
AS HE INSTRUCTED.

6,469 posted on 08/04/2010 10:27:12 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

To be “discredited” by fools is nothing to be ashamed of. It’s to be expected. And in the long run, it means nothing.

” I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.” — Psalm 91:2


“For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.” — 1 Corinthians 11:19


INDEED.

BTW, if you have any of your ‘discredit’ left over, I’m happy to take a donation. I’d be honored.


6,470 posted on 08/04/2010 10:29:07 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: metmom
So, if it becomes the literal body and blood of Christ, when does it happen and why doesn’t it look like it?

It happens at the moment of consecration, when the priest repeats the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, when the Eucharist was instituted by Christ.

God is good and in His goodness He has given us the way to fulfill Christ's words by giving us His flesh and blood under the guise of bread and wine.

For Passover, the Jews had to sacrifice a perfect lamb and then eat the flesh of the lamb sacrificed. Jesus is the Lamb of God, the last, and most perfect sacrifice. For us to eat His flesh and drink His blood, His body would have to be still present on earth and sacrificed again and again for each generation. But, He is in heaven and has left us His body and blood in the bread and wine, so that we might partake of Him as He commanded.

So, now a Catholic has answered you.

In John 15, Jesus said if we abide in Him, He will abide in us. In John, 6:54, Jesus says, "Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them."

Why did Jesus say this, what was His purpose, and how did he mean for us to fulfill it?

6,471 posted on 08/04/2010 10:30:04 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: smvoice
they have God as their author, and were as such committed to the Church.

TO those of us familiar with the idea of secondary causes this quote supports our contention. We don't say the Church created the Bible or wrote it. WE say that the text is, as your quote says inspired by the Spirit, authored by God, and committed to the Church.

The Church acting on that commission (Not "mission" means "sent" just as apostle does), laboriously defined (inspired by God) the canon, so the we don't hold the Letters of Barnabas or Hermas or the Acts of Pilate as the inspired, God-authored Bible.

The Church copied, translated (with variable results), copied some more, and made available the Bible authored by God, and handed down as the Supreme Tradition by the God-directed Church.

There is a slander that the Church withheld the Bible from the people. I laugh every time I remember I my putting up the history of various Catholic groups translating the Bible into many vernacular editions (complete or in part). The guy I was talking to essentially said, Well your source is the Catholic Encyclopedia so it can't be true.

ALRIGHTY then!

6,472 posted on 08/04/2010 10:30:49 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: presently no screen name; Mad Dawg
Mary's part: HEAR and OBEY. That's the command for ALL of us - HEAR and OBEY - HIS WORD.

Absolutely! Mary obeyed and received His Word into her womb. God became Man in the Person of Jesus, conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
6,473 posted on 08/04/2010 10:30:58 AM PDT by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
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To: wagglebee

I hear you. You gave it your best.


6,474 posted on 08/04/2010 10:34:42 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Cronos
Are you kidding me? We are still going over this?
6,475 posted on 08/04/2010 10:36:28 AM PDT by don-o (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: the_conscience
I'm more of the speak the truth to power type. How God uses that truth in the hearts of those who hear it is God's business.

I think that's a bit of a common dodge. You are responsible for your actions and for your part in the effectiveness of them. Spreading the Gospel, for example, doesn't mean throwing books at people's heads. If they avoid you and don't read it, it's not God's fault, but yours.

If people reject your message because of you or how you present it, you can look to St. Paul for his approach.

how such an innocuous term

You've already posted that your intent is not innocuous. It's a pretty blatant slur, name-calling. We don't belong to the Romanist Church, there is no Romanist Church, we're not Romans, or even Italians, the Vatican is a separate country from Italy and not the same as Rome. So it's a slur that shows the user doesn't know enough about our Church to even listen to them.

We call the it the "Mother" Church. How would you react to someone who insults your mother?

So I employ things like the video of the Romanist being counseled by the Calvinist therapist hoping that might wake a few people up to how they're being perceived.

Trust me, if it's Catholics your targeting, you're pushing them away by flagging yourself as a, pardon me, know-nothing bigot. I'm not saying you are but that's the flag you're waving. You'll get rah-rahs from your fellows perhaps but acrimony from Catholics.

Further, while we argue theologies in the forum, I think evangelization efforts are better spent reaching out to non-Christians. In an effective manner.

6,476 posted on 08/04/2010 10:37:31 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: don-o; Cronos

For the millionth time, yes.


6,477 posted on 08/04/2010 10:40:33 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: OLD REGGIE

EXACTLY! While He was God He manifested in the flesh. He had to come as ‘man’ to take back what ‘man/Adam’ had lost.

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, OVER ALL THE EARTH, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Mankind was given an unconditional authority over this earth. There was no restriction or fine print. Man/Adam transferred our God-given power and authority over to satan.

Jesus, the sinless man, had to reclaim what sinless ‘man/Adam’ HAD and sinful ‘man/Adam’ LOST.


6,478 posted on 08/04/2010 10:41:37 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Quix

lol. You’re a gentleman. 8~)


6,479 posted on 08/04/2010 10:44:42 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Thanks for your graciousness.

However, I’m not likely to ask for a vote on that on this forum! LOL.

At least not if the RC’s have equal votes! LOL.


6,480 posted on 08/04/2010 10:47:01 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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