Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Mary is the Arc of the New Covenat-who carried our Lord in her womb(the Arc)
Typology of Scripture bears this out along with the writings of the Early Church Fathers..
Examples of typology...
Old Testament Ark “verses” New Testament Mary who is the “Immaculate” Ark of the NEW COVENANT
A cloud of glory covered the Tabernacle and Ark (Exodus 40:34-35; Numbers 9:15) = Type is“And the angel said to her: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you’” (Luke 1:35)
Ark spent three months in the house of Obededom the Gittite (2 Samuel 6:11) = Type isMary spent three months in the house of Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:26, 40)
King David asked “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Samuel 6:9) = Type is Elizabeth asked Mary, “Why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43)
David Leaped and danced before the Lord when the Ark arrived in Jerusalem (2 Samuel 6:14 - 16) = Type is
John the Baptist leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary arrived (Luke 1:44)
Even the Early Christians saw this.
Some examples....
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373) was the main defender of the deity of Christ against the second-century heretics. He wrote: “O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O [Ark of the] Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides” (Homily of the Papyrus of Turin).
Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213–c. 270) wrote: “Let us chant the melody that has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, ‘Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy sanctuary.’ For the Holy Virgin is in truth an ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary” (Homily on the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary).
I know what they mean but I think the image is grotesque and misleading.
Thanks Dawg. I was hoping to continue this discussion.
I would add:
Why does the bread still bear the characteristics of bread is quite similar to asking “Why does the Word made flesh, still look like flesh?”
St. Thomas used substances and accidents to explain, but that is not so much an explanation as it is a re-description. In the East, they feel no need for it, it just is. And that is sufficient, according to Scripture.
All that said, another way to look at it is in our own experience. If a Protestants thinks of the moment after they were “reborn”. They are a new person - substantially different, different by an order of magnitude. Yet no microscope, blood test, or chemical analysis of their organs or cells will be any different than before they were born again.
If we wish to understand the how of the Holy Eucharist in a similarity to something else we experience or know, we need only look to our own transformation or to the Incarnation.
I posted a question to you earlier, I know you’ve been busy, but I would like to know, if you know; The Church the Body of Christ: Christ is the Head. The members are the Body. Who is the neck? Is there an answer in Catholic teachings?
I'm sorry, not to my knowledge; I haven't heard the term used.
Everything not the head is the body.
The Trinity is hard. But it was clearly "God the Son of God" whom Mary conceived. I find it less outrageous if I think of Philippians and the humility of God and His willingness to "bear any burden" to sneak into the world.
In one of our ancient hymns, the Te Deum, we say
Tu, ad liberandum suscepturus hominem, non horuisti Virginis uterum.This is addressed to "Tu Rex gloriae, Christe" -- You, the king of glory, O Christ"You, when you resolved to free man, did not abhor the Virgin's womb.
Certainly the Father was not conceived in the Virgin's womb. And the Holy Spirit made it happen, so He wasn't conceived -- it was by His power that the conceiving happened.
On the other hand the Son is God.
My head is exploding.
Devotion to the Eucharist, in our view, IS devotion to Jesus.
To bear Jesus while not bearing God is absurd.
PRAISE GOD.
Thanks for your kind reply.
PRAISE GOD.
I think we’re essentially on the same page. I mean not about the reformation and all, but about who done the killin’.
Heck no. Nothing official. A lot of loose talk by less than verbally gifted teachers. The best answer was the everything not head is body.
Now ask me, who is the PAIN in the neck ...
Thanks, just curious. because the neck does connect the head to the body, and if Mary were part of the Church the Body of Christ, then my assumption would be that Mary would be the neck, the “connector” between man and Christ. In Catholic teachings, that is. From us, through her, to Him. And the other way, too. From Him, through her, to us. It just sounds so Catholic. I’m going to do some search on this subject, if this IS a subject!
Good. very good - as is the stuff about the born-again Xtian. I look like the same idiot I looked like before.
As I mentioned, these terms are foreign to Catholic theology, the closest I could find would describe some Church fathers as "Amillennialist," although I can't find this term in Church teaching or vouch for it's accuracy. I'm just hoping it might ring a bell or help compare with your view.
We believe there is a particular judgement at death:
Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification or immediately—or immediate and everlasting damnation. *We believe that our soul is immortal and unite with its resurrected body just prior to the Last Judgment:
The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God’s justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God’s love is stronger than death. *We believe the Church, the Body of Christ, is Israel in this context, as Paul taught, that Christ's sacrifice and the Gospel is for all and not just Jews. We don't believe in the structure of Dispensationalism in other words.
I hope this helps a bit, if I come across anything else that relates, I'll do my best to remember to ping you with it.
[*Blockquotes are from the Catechism.]
Actually . . . I’d have to go through them one by one again with a fine toothed comb . . . however . . .
my growing sense as I read through that post was that . . .
a huge percentage of the RC’s who post most frequently on such threads are many times worse about those negative habits than the worst of the Proddys are on their worst days.
I’m more than a little shocked that you don’t see that.
Thanks.
I only steal the good stuff. :)
I guess I should go back and comment on that outrageous assertion. It greatly grieved my spirit my first read through. I think I just didn’t want to deal with it, it was so distasteful and sad.
Maybe it’s the Lutefisk? sp?
But then that’s also up in WELS country . . . Great people like a lot of RC’s . . . horrid structure and not real bright theology.
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