Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[OLD REGGIE]

Here is some food for thought:

Why bother with all the cut and paste? Just give the "Official" Catholic propaganda link.

Catholic "Implied" Scripture

[metmom]

There are denominations with only one or two churches in an area. Know their denomination and where they live, and you’re on your way to being able to compromise their screen name.

Besides, the mods have slapped people down in the recent past for that and called it trolling.

[OLD REGGIE]

The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, from the first moment of HER conception, was preserved from original sin. That’s when she was sanctified.

Are you among those Catholics who insist Mary gave her consent to the conception of Jesus?

Assuming she said "no" would her Immaculate Conception be revoked?

[OLD REGGIE]

#5623 was meant for you too.

[metmom]

If sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven either now on earth or in the after life, then it can’t be forgiven.

All Jesus is saying is that sin against Him is forgivable, although He doesn’t say where, but sin against the Holy Spirit can’t be forgiven ever. He’s not saying that other sin will or will not be forgiven in the afterlife.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

And as for our works being tried by fire to see their quality, that isn’t saying that we are purified from our sins by suffering. Jesus died so that we don’t have to suffer and pay for our sins, which we’re incapable of paying for ourselves anyway.

If we were capable of paying for them by our own suffering, Christ died for nothing.

[presently no screen name]

the Catholic Church considers Sacred Tradition to be part of Divine Revelation.

Yes they do - even though man made doctrine is not apart of God's Word - they claim it otherwise, that's it's important in functioning 'their church, their belief system'. And Christ's Church stands on God's Word ALONE.

It is not defined EXPLICITLY in the Bible. We have already gone over this time and time again.

Explicitly is not even true - some of your doctrine are in direct opposition to GOD's WORD. No need to 'try' and make some attachment - man made doctrine is null and void when pertaining to God's Word.

If all you can say is something like, "if it's not in the Bible, it's not true", well then we have nothing much to discuss.

Exactly.
Christians: God's Word ALONE vs.
Catholics: anti-God's Word alone, Jesus isn't enough, need man, also.

I guess we're at a standstill.

How right you are. What we have here is......
God's Church: Jesus, The CORNERSTONE, as The Head of His Church and His Body of Believers named Christians, after their Savior, JESUS CHRIST. His Church stands on GOD'S WORD ALONE.

versus

The "Roman" Catholic Church: Their Pope is the head (after Peter) and their subjects are called Catholics. They do not believe God's Word ALONE is enough - they have their own set of man made doctrines.

Two different Churches.....
ONE is God's creation built on HIS WORD,
the other is man's creation built on their man made doctrine.

You did a good job at pointing out the obvious - and the reason for the standstill. We can all agree on them being two different churches built on two different beliefs.

[metmom]

If God could have created Mary without sin by applying the blood of Christ in advance so that she was sinless and remained so throughout her life, why didn’t He just do that with the rest of humanity and spare us all this sin and suffering?

It’d be so much easier to just make everyone perfect from the beginning and not deal with the mess that sin brings.

[Mad Dawg]

I know what the Catholic church teaches.

So you say. But then you talk about no need to purge that body from sin, and it is clear that you DON'T know what the Catholic Church teaches any more than you know about the rules on celibacy.

There seems to be a lot of that going around in FR non-Catholic circles: apparent unwillingness to admit that one doesn't know the teaching and apparent unwillingness to learn it before arguing against it -- and the consequent misdirection of the counter-arguments.

[Natural Law]

"Are you among those Catholics who insist Mary gave her consent to the conception of Jesus?

Assuming she said "no" would her Immaculate Conception be revoked?

That is a useless rhetorical "what if" game that begs a suspension of disbelief to play. One would have to accept, even for the sake of argument, that God did not already know what was in Mary's heart or what her answer would be.

Why don't you give us your protestant definition of "obey" and tell us how it differs and is more applicable than the Catholic definition from the Catechism;

144 - To obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself. Abraham is the model of such obedience offered us by Sacred Scripture. The Virgin Mary is its most perfect embodiment.

[OLD REGGIE]

Are you really a Unitarian? Just wondering’.

Another one for the trash bucket.

[don-o]

Problem is, Eve didn't sin. Adam did. Sin entered the world through him, not her.

She didn't?

[presently no screen name]

Exactly! Adam was told, Eve wasn’t. In spite of what was told, he did it anyway.

It’s incredible the fallacy of their teachings - and, yet, their teachings are gobbled up with no thought process.

That’s the problem with only dabbling in Scripture and not standing on it. We are commanded to: TEST EVERYTHING.

[Natural Law]

"They do not believe God's Word ALONE is enough..."

That is about the third time in this thread that that lie has been repeated. Whether you either unable or unwilling to accept that is not my problem, it just requires a disclaimer.

[D-fendr]

If it’s a subterfuge, yes. Or they wish to attack another’s but not defend their church, yes.

Also, some Protestants don’t have a church.

[wagglebee]

If sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven either now on earth or in the after life, then it can’t be forgiven.

All Jesus is saying is that sin against Him is forgivable, although He doesn’t say where, but sin against the Holy Spirit can’t be forgiven ever. He’s not saying that other sin will or will not be forgiven in the afterlife.

That is YOUR INTERPRETATION of Scripture.

Why would our Lord reference "a world to come" where forgiveness is granted if none exists?

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Nothing in this verse negates Purgatory.

And as for our works being tried by fire to see their quality, that isn’t saying that we are purified from our sins by suffering. Jesus died so that we don’t have to suffer and pay for our sins, which we’re incapable of paying for ourselves anyway.

So, according to YOUR INTERPRETATION of Scripture, Jesus Christ lied when He said, "thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing," AND Saint Paul lied when he wrote, "but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire"?

If we were capable of paying for them by our own suffering, Christ died for nothing.

Again, that is YOUR INTERPRETATION of Scripture.

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply. That hadn’t even occurred to me. I’m not sure how you would go from where their church is to who they are - or why you would want to do that anyway.

I know Presbyterian is a pretty large group, OPC I think is pretty small, but I’m not sure.

[OLD REGGIE]

That said, show me where I have rejected information from Zenit without stating my reason for doing so.

Of course you rejected it. It didn't serve your purpose.

[presently no screen name]

they don’t want to be pinned down to any theology

Who has a problem with that? I'll pin my down RIGHT NOW! There is ONLY ONE TRUTH - GOD's WORD.

OR that they aren’t actually Christians in the first place (and there are several on this thread who I am fairly certain fall into this category).

Don't know - I'm not scanning posts to look for 'signs or errors' like some do when the TRUTH gets too overwhelming.

[wagglebee]

If God could have created Mary without sin by applying the blood of Christ in advance so that she was sinless and remained so throughout her life, why didn’t He just do that with the rest of humanity and spare us all this sin and suffering? [Added emphasis is mine]

Wow a refutation of the Immaculate Conception that denies it based on the premise that God was somehow incapable of it.

[wagglebee]

Who has a problem with that? I'll pin my down RIGHT NOW! There is ONLY ONE TRUTH - GOD's WORD.

There are THOUSANDS of Protestant theologies and they ALL claim to be faithful to Scripture. Which one, if any, is right and how do you know?