Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
No, the Church rejects sola scriptura simply because it is unsubstantiated and self exclusionary. The heresy of sola scriptura cannot be found in scripture, didn't that ever make you go hummmmmmm?
There is no apostolic succession in scripture ..there is no priesthood.. so when one of their own tells the truth it is [OUTRAGEOUSLY, INSUFFERABLY, INTOLERABLY ] embarrassing
INDEED.
There, I fixed it for you.
First, as should be obvious from the late date of the conciliar declaration of the infallibility of Popes (under certain circumstances) that the understanding of the Papacy has been unfolding. We don't think that Jesus said what he said, and immediately 8 strong men showed up with a sedan chair and a tiara.
I think neither Peter nor James nor anyone else (but only Jesus) knew what Peter's primacy (stipulating it pro tem) would mean. And we just don't know what people called each other in the early Church. Romans usually had three names to work with. Semites tended to do the patronymic thing. I don't know how common cognomens were, but we have evidence in the Gospels that people were sometimes referred to by more than one name.
It might FIT with a certain argument that James's saying Simeon rather than Cephas is meaningful, but I don't see how it proves anything.
PRAISE GOD FOR YOUR EXCELLENT POSTS AND THEIR QUITE BIBLICAL TRUTHS AND ACCURATE POINTS.
No matter how you slice it, you can’t justify the papacy by using Peter’s role in the NT church as evidence without wholesale twisting and mangling of the Greek.
==
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
THX.
PRECISELY WHY, INDEED.
must be nice to change it up any ol' way you wanna'...
Us poor ol' hillbilly trailerhouse folk... Us anti-Romanist bigots... We all just gotta make due with the unchanging, unmaleable, distinct and everlasting Word of the Living God.
It'll do. :D
***note to all (just in case): "change it up" is not porn lingo.
“Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your FELLOW ELDER and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarilly, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shephard appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.” (I Peter 5:1-4).
Peter describes himself here not the the Supreme Shepherd but as “Your Fellow Elder”. He explicity forbids anyone from “lording” authority over other Christians. He identifies the “Chief Shepherd” (I Peter 5:4) not as himself, but as the Lord Jesus Christ.
All I can say is “hmmmmm.....”
INDEED.
...maybe...
It appears the concept of first among equals, which continues to this day with the Bishop of Rome, is unknown to you. You should break with the practice of excerpting a few words and forcing a preclusion and read all of 1 Peter 5:1-3 in which Peter references his oversight duties confirming his willing position as first among equal:s
Serve God Willingly
1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;
3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be (examples to the flock.
You do know that we Catholics have full internet access and have already read most of the looney tunes anti-Catholic websites and their contrived arguments so having a full and proper rebuttal ready is a fiat accompli. So please give me a few minutes to put on my raincoat before the multi-colored spew erupts.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
"The elders which are among you I exhort,who am also an elder.."
reading..reading..1-5. Nope no confirmation by Peter his willing position as FIRST among EQUALS.
BUT, if Peter WAS the first pope, the prince of the apostles, and the head of the church, he certainly missed an opportunity here of making it clear to the church..
exercising oversight"
READ CAREFULLY...Peter is talking to the elders, telling THEM to take the oversight thereof...”Feed the flock of God which is among YOU, taking the oversight thereof..” The elders are to exercise oversight, each of them, including Peter who says he is also an elder.
It really makes me wonder why the concept is fought so viciously today. Why can't their doctrines rely on God's holy word for proof? What are they afraid of?
Then we must agree to disagree.
It COULD mean something, though I’m not sure what. But most things could mean something.
You have achieved the paradox of the night. Hat’s off to you.
For: We on the tradition side should look to our tradition to see that sola scriptura is right.
TILT!
I love it.
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