Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[Quix]

Precision . . . pretended precision . . .

even in a language partially developed for diplospeak . . .

can give illusions of distinction where, at the heart level, such distinctions are nonexistent

or

irrelevent.

FROM GOD’S PERSPECTIVE.

PRODDY’S PERSPECTIVES DON’T MATTER.

[Quix]

I wanna . . .

Am working on a complex email to my network . . . an alert etc. . . .

and reading several books . . .

[Religion Moderator]

On the Religion Forum accusing another poster personally of telling a lie is attributing to him the intent to deceive. It is mind reading and therefore, making it personal.

Words like "false" "wrong" "misleading" are not mind reading.

Also, "open" Religion Forum threads like this one are often contentious because they are in a town square format. Thick skin is required.

Thin skinned posters should IGNORE "open" RF threads altogether and instead post to "ecumenical" "caucus" "prayer" or "devotional" RF threads.

Finally, making the thread "about" individual Freepers is also a form of "making it personal" It is also rude to the other posters to redirect the thread away from the issues to personal spitwad matches.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Quix]

Are you trying to tell me I shouldn’t worship my spitwads?

Harumph! The very idea!

INDEED.

LOL.

Thx.

[don-o]

And there FRiend, is where we will inevitably part. When one cannot trust the stewardship of anyone or any organization, due to the evidence of bald faced manipulation of documentation pursuant to the second part, what would make one likely to accept their authority at all?

Just a brief sidebar, please. If you will, clarify on "bald faced manipulation." Are you talking about the 9th century "Donation of Constantine". Is there more than that?

[Iscool]

Read a book? And maybe ask a question based on that? What a concept!

Been there, done that...Some of you guys told us that we can't just read the catechism...It has to be interpreted for us...And you as well...

[Quix]

EXCELLENT POINTS. WELL PUT.

[OLD REGGIE]

He could have done anything He wanted, but He decided to ask Mary to become the Mother of His Son. He must have had a pretty high regard for her, don’t you think? Why shouldn’t we have a similar regard for her?

God didn't ask her. He sent an Angel to tell her.

LUKE 1:
[26] In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
[27] to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Jose
ph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. [28] And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"
[29] But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be.
[30] And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
[31] And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.

"...you will conceive"

[don-o]

You read the whole Catholic catechism? All of it? Really?

[OLD REGGIE]

The Vatican "experts" are the ones who made the translation, not I.

I think the Vatican hires their English translators by those ads on the back of match books. If y cn rd ths y cld gt a job wth gd py!

Wouldn't they have JPII say "devtn" rather than "wrshp"?

I am happy to tangle with them on their translations. Have you SEEN the NAB? Execrable!

I'm impressed that they know Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. I just wish they knew English.

Maybe we should see the document in the orininal language. I doubt if JPII thought and wrote in Latin.

[don-o]

God didn't ask her. He sent an Angel to tell her.

Whoa! Dude! Do you understand what you are saying? Why do the Scriptures record her consent?

[roamer_1]

Just a brief sidebar, please. If you will, clarify on "bald faced manipulation." Are you talking about the 9th century "Donation of Constantine". Is there more than that?

I gave you two: "The Donation of Constantine" and the "Isidorian Decretals..." add to that the "Liber Pontificalis," and the "The Apostolic Constitutions" (I believe that is the correct title). All of these are blatant forgeries designed toward papal supremacy and church hierarchy, upon which the Roman church, at least, rests, and upon which canon law is (remains) reliant.

To the degree that the Orthodox leaned upon these same documents (or by acceptance thereof from Rome, they stand complicit.

To continue with more examples would require me to research the subject again, as my mind is like a steel sieve. But the list of forgeries is easily in the hundreds of items, and may be in the thousands.

[Global2010]

Mary also had free will and she chose to be obediant to God her whole life.

JM2cents.

[Deo volente]

Sorry, not right at all. God did not force Mary against her will to become the Mother of His Son. That would be impossible. She gave her loving consent to His wonderful plan of salvation, told to her by the angel Gabriel. Full of faith and totally in love with God, she conceived Jesus in her womb by the power of the Holy Spirit. There was nothing ‘forced” about it.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryd4.htm

excerpt:
Picture the scene of the Annunciation. God proposes the mystery of the Incarnation which He will accomplish in the Virgin Mary—but not until she has given her consent. The accomplishment of the mystery is held in suspense awaiting the free acceptance of Mary. At this moment Mary represents all of us in her own person; it is as if God is waiting for the response of the humanity to which He longs to unite Himself. What a solemn moment this is! For upon this moment depends the decision of the most vital mystery of Christianity.

But see how Mary gives her answer. Full of faith and confidence in the heavenly message and entirely submissive to the Divine Will, the Virgin Mary replies in a spirit of complete and absolute abandonment: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to Thy word.” This “Fiat” is Mary's consent to the Divine Plan of Redemption. It is like an echo of the “Fiat” of the creation of the world. But this is a new world, a world infinitely superior, a world of grace, which God will cause to arise in consequence of Mary's consent, for at that moment the Divine Word, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity, becomes Man in Mary: “And the Word was made Flesh and dwelt among us.”

[OLD REGGIE]

But, once translated, isn’t the Latin version considered the, as it were, standard to which all others should be compared? It’s the language in which the technical vocabulary and all the nice distinctions are — what’s the word I want — established, I thought.

I don’t know as much about this stuff as I should.

Well, you know more than I do.

We need native Latin speakers to do the translations.

Oh wait.........they're all dead. Never mind. :-)

[Cronos]

Ah, yes, selective editing. Along with the false moral equivalence, one of the favorite tricks of the left—be it the political, social, economic, or theological left.

Since so few will read the entire encyclical to benefit from a more complete understanding (not that ignorance will stop them from spewing poisonous accusations like so many benzedrine puff adders) let’s at least give the entirety of that one sentence.

Thanks for pointing that out -- and the net outcome of all these "creative editing" is that Catholics and non-Catholics see them and wonder what force of God could make so many use such "creative editing" against it. Then they realise that it is as God predicted that the enemy would hate His Church and try everything to spread lies about it

[Mad Dawg]

Did I tell you about the time that some furrin’ monk Biblical scholar came to my Episcopal Seminary to talk Bible with Dr. Reginald Fuller (who was supposedly a big noise in NT studies) and they had no common language so they conversed in Latin?

Pretty amazing. And it was fluent. It wasn’t really fast, but it was too fast for me to make out anything much.

J2P2 was apparently quite the amazing mind in his salad days. In Weigel’s biography there’s a photo of hum grading somebody’s exam WHILE he is at the same time heading up a viva voce exam. There here innerleckshuals don’t mess around.

I don’t know why they didn’t translate it “cult” which was certainly a liturgical term of art before it came to mean people in airports with flowers.

[Deo volente]

Prayer is not a measurable thing to be meted out in quanta. It is entering into the presence of God, being drawn by God into the life of the Trinity and the perpetual self-giving of each of the persons of the Trinity to each other.

Very well put! The idea that praying to Mary "deprives" God in any way is tantamount to saying God is a finite being with limited power. The whole idea that God would be offended by someone asking His Mother to intercede is ridiculous. As you said, we're all praying in the Spirit, and He is infinite and omnipotent.

[OLD REGGIE]

THANKS.

Though given the pressures on him, I try and avoid pinging JimRob more than once a year or so.

And, given how much the RM reads the threads normally, I try and avoid pinging him as much as possible. He’ll get to what’s needed in due course even if I say nothing . . . almost always.

I agree wholeheartedly. In this instance the Religion Moderator had been pinged repeatedly with unsatisfactory results for thhe "pinger". I simply thought the ping to JR was over the top.

[Mad Dawg]

Do non-Catholics ever just be with God? Just “behold the beauty of the Lord”?

I remember once in Sacramento we walked upstream by this river and swam out to the middle, and we trod water and chatter while the lovely cool water carried us along and refreshed us.

Sometimes the Rosary is a lot like treading water. It’s about letting Him be who lets us be.