Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
“God could have easily raised up a rock to be a virgin descendent of David to fulfill the role.”
He did not though. Still waiting for you to man up and either specify the sins you allege or apologize.
who is the FREEPER WITHOUT SIN?
Or is that not in y'all's jello Bible either?
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOO
I GET IT!
That’s an interesting perspective on “reality.”
Not mine, however.
Proddys are still waiting for some honest candor
about all the rampant idolatries and blasphemise.
While you're at it, give us an example of where the Catholic Church, in its magisterial documents and official teachings, declares that Mary is worthy of Divine worship.
Otherwise, please withdraw your slanderous charge that the Roman Catholic Church engages in idolatry.
He could have done anything He wanted, but He decided to ask Mary to become the Mother of His Son. He must have had a pretty high regard for her, don’t you think? Why shouldn’t we have a similar regard for her?
Oh, they deny it up one side and down the other.
They just persistently DEMONSTRATE it
IN THEIR WORD CHOICES, TONES, PHRASES, ATTITUDES.
ACTIONS REALLY DO SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
. . . PARTICULARLY RELENTLESS ACTIONS REPEATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
Didn’t have that problem when I did have teeth.
LOL.
"I am the Lord your God...You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself and idol...You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God." (Exodus 20:2-5). "You shall have no other gods before Me" or literally, "before My face." He demands undivided loyalty. And devotion. No other gods "in addition to Him".
So where does the line of idolatry get crossed with Mary in the Catholic Church? Kneeling before a statue of her, kissing her feet, offering her praise and petition. All of these things belong to God and God alone. He is to be praised. He is to be adored. He is to be the One we petition. Saying that Mary was "immaculate in every respect" and that when speaking of sin, the Church teaches that "the holy Virgin Mary is not even to be mentioned." Only by degree is she distinguished from the Lord Jesus, who was without sin (1 John 3:5).
Another only by degree difference: Jesus pleased the Father in all that He did (Luke 3:22). Mary, according to the Church",,in her was the Father well pleased with singular delight".
Another: As Jesus suffered and died for our redemption, so Mary "suffered in the very depths of her soul with his most bitter sufferings and torments..and in her heart died with him, stabbed by the sword of sorrow."
Another, because of their physical union, the Church says "The blood of Christ shed for our sake and those members in which he offers to his Father the wounds he received as the price of our liberty are NO OTHER than the FLESH AND BLOOD OF the Virgin.
Thus.."she with Christ redeemed mankind."
Another: As Christ died NOT for His sins but for the sins of others, the Church teaches that Mary did not die for her sins, rather that she "..should in all things resemble Jesus; and as the Son died, it was becoming that the mother should die also." Another: Just as Christ was bodily resurrected, Mary was bodily resurrected.Another:Even as Christ sits at the right hand of God (Heb.1:13), THe Church teaches that "Mary sitteth at the right hand of her Son." Another: According to the Church ,In her heavenly position at the right hand of her Son, Mary's dominion is the same as Christ's. "She is Queen of Heaven and of earth. According to the Catholic Church Her glory can be compared to non but Christ's:
...God has lavished upon this loving associate of our Redeemer, privileges which reach such an exalted plane that, except for her, nothing created by God other than the human nature of Jesus Christ has ever reached this level. - Munificentissimus Deus. Pope Pius XII
Biblical descriptions of the Lord Jesus has a parallel in the Church's descriptions of Mary. She is called the "inexpressible gift of the Almighty," the "Cause of Our Joy", the "Morning Star", the "Gate of Heaven", the "Refuge of Sinners", and "Our Lady of Perpetual Help." The Catholic Church promises that "all those who seek Mary's protection will be saved for all eternity. - Pope Benedict XV. Inter Sodalicia.
This is the Mary of the Catholic Church, a woman whom the Church has exalted above every other created being and has assigned attributes, titles, powers, and prerogatives that in Scripture Belong to God ALONE.
Statues, shrines, churches, cathedrals and basilicas have been erected to her by the Catholic Church. To Mary the Church calls all the faithful to lift their prayers, petitions, and praise.
Is there any Catholic Church which does not have an image of Mary? In its doctrine, the Church enthrones Mary in heaven at the right hand of Christ.
The Catholic Church claim idolatry does not exist for Mary. Based on facts and teachings of the Catholic Church regarding Mary, The Word of God says differently.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
THX THX FOR MORE OF
THE TRUTH.
FITTING GODLY RESPECT
IS LIGHT YEARS DIFFERENT FROM WORSHIP.
And weasel words just don’t cut it.
Neither do slippery rationalizations and excuses.
The charge stands and is exceedingly accurate.
And God Himself will execute punishment accordingly IN HIS TIME.
You thought WHAT? I didn’t even answer your question. While I live on this earth, she is my mother. When I am in heaven, she will not be my mother.
Leaving aside the fact that you toss most of these quotations out there without any sources, I will try to address some of them, asking the help of the Holy Spirit and also praying to Our Lady of Good Counsel for assistance.
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“Kneeling before a statue of her, kissing her feet, offering her praise and petition. All of these things belong to God and God alone...He is to be the One we petition.”
Have you never kissed your mother or offered her praise? Does a man not kneel before the lady he is asking to marry? Have you never petitioned a friend to pray for you to God? How are these things idolatry?
____________________________________________________________________________
“Just as Christ was bodily resurrected, Mary was bodily resurrected.Another:Even as Christ sits at the right hand of God (Heb.1:13), THe Church teaches that “Mary sitteth at the right hand of her Son.
“In her heavenly position at the right hand of her Son, Mary’s dominion is the same as Christ’s.”
Mary was not resurrected on her own power. She was “assumed” into heaven, body and soul, by the power of God. That is is the clear teaching of the Church.
Mary sitting at the right hand of Christ is of a lesser order than Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father in glory and majesty. He is omnipotent. Mary is not, in the strict sense of that word. She is still a creature, she has not become Divine.
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“God has lavished upon this loving associate of our Redeemer, privileges which reach such an exalted plane that, except for her, nothing created by God other than the human nature of Jesus Christ has ever reached this level.” - Munificentissimus Deus. Pope Pius XII
What’s the problem here? Mary is a creature, yet the highest of all created things other than the human nature of Jesus. This exalted level is still infinitely less than that of God’s. Her virtues and gifts are all from God.
“He who is mighty has done GREAT THINGS for me”, she says in her Magnificat, a great prayer praising God for His goodness to her. She gives God the credit. We do, too. We love Mary in a special way because God loves her in a unique way.
I am trying to come up with a way to discuss Catholic teaching and Bible teachings. On the Bible side of discussions scriptures are usually given along with the scripture placement. We don’t get a lot of that from the other side. Just beliefs, without sources, with no way to look them up for ourselves and study and compare them with God’s Word. I’ve decided on my posts that if at all possible I will do the work of Catholics who here-to-fore haven’t been too interested in sharing the actual doctrines Vatican Council , etc. Just SOMETHING we can SEE isn’t just made up out of whole cloth. Your first sentence to me is ironically what we deal with all the time. People tossing their Church’s teachings out without any sources and we are supposed to believe them,, why? There IS a way to know what each side believes and WHY. And if recent history is any example, there are a lot of Catholics who differ from one Catholic to another in what they THINK the Church teaches. My last post was given as a test post of what something like this would look like and sound like, both sides being on one person’s post.
I meant to PING you to post #2130 and also #2111 above. I misspelled your name and pinged “Chronos” instead. Sorry about that!
The Dominicans and Franciscans argued back and forth for centuries over the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.
The Franciscan view won out, as it were, in the end when it was understood that Mary received this great privilege of being preserved from original sin in ANTICIPATION of her Son's redemptive Sacrifice on the Cross. She was saved from sin BEFOREHAND, just as someone might save another person from falling into a pit and not have to rescue them after they already fell in. She does say in the Scriptures that God is her Savior.
Anyway, I digress. If you want to know what the Church teaches, go to the Catechism. That's the best starting point. There are also many good books on apologetics that explain why the Church honors Mary in a special way.
The thing to remember is that all of her special gifts, privileges, etc., always point to Christ and to God's goodness, mercy, and power. To love Mary is to love Christ.
The Apostolic Church, via Augustine, and against the Pelegians, taught the total corruption of the imago dei that required an all encompassing grace to overcome. And we stayed true to this anti-Pelagianism.
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