Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Glory to God!!! One of my favorite verses in all of Scripture!
It shows His love and His Grace and His kindness so beautifully! How could anyone possibly think they could do ANYTHING to earn what He has so KINDLY given us through Christ Jesus?
Context supplied: The above is responding to a wiki paste about dispensationalism. Now, I ask Quix to elucidate the GROSS WHOLE WRONG of the pasted snip. With specificity, if it's not asking too much.
I wonder . . . do you also believe the MSM about UFO’s?
Is the wiki under alien control or Vatican control?
You don’t understand. Until the reason water baptism was necessary for remission of sins is established, nothing else is relevant. What I believe or what you believe doesn’t matter. It’s the what and why of God’s instruction that matters.
Your refusal to give an answer to a simple, straightforward question that is a no brainer to 99.99% of Protestant Christians, speaks volumes.
And yours. You don’t seem willing to share the answer to a very important question. Yet you practice something and attack others who may not, with no concrete answer as to why you believe what you believe. This should be water baptism 101 to anyone as informed as you appear to be. I’ll wait for your answer. You may just change my mind, it you present enough scripture to persuade me that it is necessary in this present dispensation. The ball in is your court. Scripture is what I’m looking for here. Not tradition or doctrines of men. It ‘s there, in scripture.
I said I would once you answer the question I asked.
Yet you practice something and attack others who may not, with no concrete answer as to why you believe what you believe.
Show the post where I "attacked". Hint: Asking a question is not an attack. Pointing out a practice (actually lack of a practice) that is out of the mainstream of Protestant Christianity is not an attack
I’ll wait for your answer. You may just change my mind, it you present enough scripture to persuade me that it is necessary in this present dispensation.
I am going to make an assumption about your belief, based on this last sentence. You do not believe, as to the vast majority of Protestant Christians do believe, that baptism in water is a normal part of a normal Christian life.
Again, it makes no difference to me. I am frying a different fish - that being the different conclusions that sola believers come to from the same baseline. I have used the question of baptism simply as an example of this fact.
Now, I rest my case. Thanks.
You think Protestants believe that baptism is NECESSARY for REMITTANCE OF SINS? Really? I don’t think so. And the question remains to you. If you ever stumble across the answer let me know. It’s VERY important. I would think since water baptism for REMISSION OF SINS is important to your religion, this question would be important to you, as well. Or maybe you are one of those who just accept things those in authority say, because they are in, well, authority.
I spoke of the practice. I'm pretty sure I do know what the understanding is about baptism (and the Lord's Supper, for that matter.) I do know that Protestants reject the ancient beliefs about baptism. That's of no concern to me.
But, even with the rejection / disagreement, baptism is considered a normal part of a normal Christian life by the vast majority of Protestant Christians. Why do you suppose that is? Are they all in error on this and you are right? What else are they wrong about and how did they get the Bible so unrightly divided?
Great, then I await your answer.
I have revealed the purpose of my questions about your belief RE: baptism. You have helped me illustrate my large point: i e: Different groups of sola believers come to mutually exclusive and contradictory conclusions working from the same baseline.
And I'm tired of repeating it. You are clearly refusing to engage THAT elephant in the living room. Just like you sidestepped my call to show where I "attacked."
You’ve done nothing of the sort. You have sidestepped a HUGE question. The REASON water baptism was necessary for remission of sin is bigger than you let on. But I’ll let you go on believing your nitpicking arguments are FAR more important. You, sir, are ignoring the elephant in the living room. His name is WHY.
I’ve used all the English I know. I give up.
Wait, you mean that's not supposed to happen? I kinda thought that was what Kierkegaard was aiming at. I just open Works of Love and five minutes later ... zzzzzzz.
MB: I do think one can, in fact at some undetermined point, one has to say, "I can only go so far. The rest may not be a mystery in some objective sense, but it beats the heck out of me."
I think then the MAIN point is to know where those points are in one's own theological efforts. Some stuff, at the very best, I just have to come back to later.
But that point is not a proof (and no substitute for a 'current proof'). It's also nothing to be ashamed of. It is what it is. However, the fact that such points exist for most of us constitute a great shame on threads that are so contentious and laced with insult just barely on the windy side of the law.
How anyone can think that the gospel is well-preached by repeated condemnation utterly escapes me. and when thee condemnations are obviously false, well, it's pretty much the end of any possibility of conversation.
BB AND MB: While I think what I just said, I do think there is room for looking at prima facie cases. That is as if I were to say,"Okay so you can't explain why you think thus and such. well would this that and the other thing be consequences of such and such, and do we think that's good?" So just hitting a conceptual brick wall doesn't mean we're done with the investigation.
FWIW. I'm going to bed. Bless you all.
This in no way is saying we can just believe whatever we want about major doctrines of the faith. There ARE certain non-negotiable doctrines but we do NOT need to have every little detail spelled out for us. We are told:
Ephesians 4:11-16
It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
This is why, I believe, we can have unity as Christians while not necessarily agreeing about every single detail. Like I've said many times, on the major things we should have unity, on the minor things, liberty and in all things, love.
Dispies have documented several times that the Biblical belief in Dispensationalism goes back to the beginnings of the Christian church.
The erroneous Darby thing has been trashed several different ways. Darby was a Johnny come lately to the beliefs.
No. I’m not going to look up such documentation. Others can provide it if they wish to bother.
We are used to RC’s making false claims . . . in this case . . . along with some rabid clique Calvinist types.
THX THX.
This is what wmfights and I were talking about earlier. Agreement on every single detail is not necessary, and will never happen. On the major things, it is VERY important. There cannot be unity if the major tenets are in such disagreement. It is the major tenets of our faiths that form our Christian walk. They cannot be compromised purely to unify over minor things. The minor things will never sustain us. The major things are our anchors. I hope that makes sense.
Just completed a move and am settled in my new home.
Opened FR and found this, what a heart warming story!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.