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To: Logophile; Colofornian
So I must amend my previous statement about "lying for the Lord." Except for a speech by Elder Oaks in which he denounces the notion of "lying for the Lord," I have never known Latter-day Saints to use the phrase, much less recommend the practice.

The simple fact that HE associates it with past practices - specifically polygamy - AND relates to it as an ONGOING PRACTICE speaks volumes in itself. He acknowledges it was an accepted practice.

Yes, he SAYS it is not permissible - yet the teaching and practice is NOT to tell the whole truth about things - milk before meat - isn't it logos.

One item stands out from Oak's talk

! Lying is sinful, as it has always been, and there is no exempt category for so-called “lying for the Lord.” Lying is simply outside the range of permitted or condoned conduct by Latter-day Saints—members or leaders.

Yet this WAS the conduct condoned by smith in regards to polygamy wasn't it. Smith and his inner circle lied about practicing it, the mormon church officially condemned the practice of polygamy during the very time Joseph practiced it.

I am glad you do not recommend the practice - are you going then commit to telling the whole truth or just the milk to avoid embarrassing doctrines of the mormon church

786 posted on 07/07/2010 11:16:17 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla
Yes, he SAYS it is not permissible - yet the teaching and practice is NOT to tell the whole truth about things - milk before meat - isn't it logos.

The saying "milk before meat" is not meant as a justification for lying. It is intended to describe a principle of sound pedagogy.

Are you not aware that the expression originates with the Apostle Paul? In his first epistle to the Corinthians, Paul wrote

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)

Paul uses much the same metaphor in his epistle to the Hebrews. Speaking of Christ, Paul wrote

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:8-14)

When teaching undergraduate thermodynamics, I cannot initially impart to the students everything I know. They are simply not ready. I must start with what they know, and present things in the proper order. Once they have mastered the basics, they can move on to more advanced topics. In other words, I give them milk before meat. Every good teacher does the same, as Paul well knew.
833 posted on 07/07/2010 1:25:20 PM PDT by Logophile
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