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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Forest Keeper; RnMomof7; count-your-change; betty boop
Scriptures include prophecies (predestination) and commandments (free will.) They are not mutually exclusive; either/or in this case is a false dichotomy.

The only Freepers I've met who believe in strong determinism were atheists, believing the universe unfolds involuntarily with neither first cause nor final cause. If one knew the initial conditions and rules, one could project every detail of the universe throughout time.

Logically, part of that belief is that the mind is merely an epiphenomenon of the physical brain, a secondary phenomenon which can cause nothing to happen.

In other words, no man is personally responsible for his actions. The person is an illusion. No mind, no soul, no spirit - all illusions. The brain did it, physically and involuntarily.

I have not yet met a Reformed Freeper or any other Christian Freeper who testified to such beliefs.

As with Faith and Works, the Predestination and Free Will debate among Christians is a matter of balancing scales. As for me the bottom line is this:

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

635 posted on 07/13/2010 2:26:15 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; RnMomof7; count-your-change; betty boop
Scriptures include prophecies (predestination) and commandments (free will.) They are not mutually exclusive; either/or in this case is a false dichotomy.

You can dress it up any way you want, A-G, the Reformed believe man cannot resist God's will. So, man has "free will" only from his POV as Forest Keeper would say. But in reality what man does is exactly according to God's plan and will.

The only Freepers I've met who believe in strong determinism were atheists

I suppose you didn't deal with Calvinists on that issue.

Logically, part of that [atheist] belief is that the mind is merely an epiphenomenon of the physical brain, a secondary phenomenon which can cause nothing to happen

When the brain functions stop, so does the mind. Therefore mind is an epiphenomenon, or better yet a product of the brain activity. Mind does cause things to happen but not magically. You don't bend spoons with your mind, but the mind can invent a tool that does.

The person is an illusion. No mind, no soul, no spirit - all illusions. The brain did it, physically and involuntarily.

I have to admit I have not met too many atheists who think that way. Come to think of it, none!

646 posted on 07/13/2010 6:40:13 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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