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To: Alamo-Girl; annalex; TXnMA; Quix; kosta50; xzins; shibumi; GOPJ; count-your-change; blue-duncan
Mathematically speaking, in between the two extreme perspectives of cosmos and quantum is the geometric form of a particular man, rocketing through space and time from a definitive beginning space/time coordinate of his mortal life to a definitive ending space/time coordinate of his mortal life.... But that is just the physical man.

What a magnificent observation, dearest sister in Christ! Of course, as a fellow Platonist, I truly can appreciate "the geometric form of a particular man rocketing through space and time" in mortal existence, "in between the two extreme perspectives of cosmos and quantum," from Alpha to Omega....

IMHO your explanation from Holy Scripture of God and man in their relations, His four revelations, and the nature of man in his mortal limits, is comprehensive and impeccable. All thanks and praise be to God!

I truly appreciate the "big picture" or "whole system" approach you take to such questions. Which it seems to me is the Christian way, and also the Platonic way — and Plato was very likely following in the Pythagorean tradition. When you get to Pythagoras, you really get into the proposition that the universe is founded in number and geometry.

But that's probably beyond the scope of the present discussion. More generally, here's a great description of how Pythagoras conceived of the "whole system" problem:

The Universe is One, but the phenomenal realm is a differentiated image of this unity — the world is a unity in multiplicity. What maintains the unity of the whole, even though it consists of many parts, is the hierarchical principle of harmony, the logos of relation, which enables every part to have its place in the fabric of the all....

The Pythagorean view of the universe as a living, harmonic mixture is not only indispensable as a scientific concept, but it beautifully articulates the position of man in the cosmos as well. If, along with Plato, we view time as a moving image of eternity, then each generation of humanity stands poised between the present moment and the timeless immensity of the eternal. Rather than being a worthless speck meaninglessly situated in in the infinite expanse of space, each person, according to the Pythagorean view, is a microcosm, a complete image of the entire cosmos, with one foot located in the realm of eternal principles and the other foot rooted in the particular world of manifestation. Poised as he is between time and eternity, matter and spirit, man possesses an incredible freedom to learn, create and know, limited only by those principles on which creation is based. From this vantage point, humanity is engaged in a never-ceasing dialectic between time and eternity, possessing the ability to incarnate eternal principles in time (and in this sense mirror the creative work of Nature), yet also possessing the ability to elevate the particular to the universal through conscious understanding. — David Fideler, ed., introducing Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie's, The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library [1988]

Of course, Pythagoras (~600 B.C.) is speaking the language of Nature, not of God (unless the Tetraktys — the "perfect number" — is God in his book). What I find interesting is that Saint Justin Martyr applied to study at a Pythagorean school, but was turned down owing to his insufficient skill in mathematics. So he applied to the Platonists; and they accepted him. Later, he became a Christian. Then he said that he believed that Christianity was not only the fulfillment of the Old Testament, but of classical philosophy as well.

Indeed, I think a case can be made that Justin Martyr was right about that.

Thank you ever so much for your absolutely magnificent, thought-provoking essay/post, dearest sister in Christ!

1,287 posted on 07/20/2010 4:52:21 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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To: betty boop
Thank you oh so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ, and thank you for your encouragements!

The excerpt from The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library is a perfect fit for this "who is man" sidebar. I do note the classic theme of man's being situated between time and eternity, physical and spiritual. Surely, man knows he does not belong "here."

Plato was particularly sensitive to that and then Justin Martyr as you described. Martyr of course was blessed with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

And it is my true belief that Plato heard it also, albeit "on the other side."

1,335 posted on 07/20/2010 10:29:54 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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