Posted on 07/02/2010 6:56:08 PM PDT by Desdemona
I, too, reverence Mary, the mother of the incarnate 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity.
All believers are of one sheepfold, Sister Judith. Let’s rejoice at that truth despite the naysayers who reject Christian Unity as outlined in John 17:23. “23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”
Let’s “overcome evil with good.”
And I thank God for you, dear brother in Christ, and for His calling you for that purpose!
It's exactly determinism. God's determinism. And I trust God completely, so where's the problem?
Of course we all feel as if every breath we take is our own doing. But that pretense is just part of the mystery that is our life on earth.
Because that is not the truth. The truth is that "in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
As xzins said, it is an amazing "comfort" to know that this life is all contained within the mind of God, for His glory, and the welfare of His family among which I am numbered, although I have done NOTHING to deserve such a gift.
It's all Him.
It grows on you. 8~)
As Jesus said:
Without the help of Jesus Christ, I am completely unable to “overcome evil with good.”
It does actually grow on you. My flight over to see my daughter in Germany was much less stressful because of that fact. I learned a lot from dear brother, Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.
It’s not fatalism...it’s trust and rest.
Pray for my s-i-l who is off playing taliban tag.
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:47-50 NIV)
Amen.
It was only when I understood that I had NOTHING to do with hearing Christ that I actually began to hear Him clearly for the first time in Scripture.
We know that we must be born again in order to understand the things of God, and John tells us we are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
The funny thing is that as you come to realize all good things in you are the work of the Holy Spirit and not your own, you actually want to try harder.
And even that is the work of God in you.
It all comes back to the source.
Under strong determinism, the murderer had no choice. He does not need to apologize.
So even if God allowed me no freedom of movement, nevertheless I accept personal responsibility for my own thoughts and deeds, confess my sins and repent.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - I John 1:9-10
I join in earnest prayer for your sister-in-law!
AMEN!!!
Pray for my s-i-l who is off playing taliban tag.
You and your family have given more than your share, x. Prayers for God's continuing protection. Christ abides.
To God be the glory, not man, never man!
The short of the long story is this: the middle and passive forms in Greek are identical and, consequently, it is impossible to determine grammatically which form (active/middle or passive) the author intended to convey.
The best that I can say it read "having been set (tetagmenoi) into life everlasting." It's ambiguous as to when and by whom, although just about in every instance in the Bible that I could find the verb τασσω (tasso), meaning to set or arrange, etc. identifies the one who is setting or arranging.
This is not the only example of ambiguous or indeterminate verses. For instance, the ἐφ᾽ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον (ef ho pantes hemarton) in Romans 5:12 can be read in two different ways and, like Acts 13:48, understood in a manner that is theologically as different as night and day! One reading led to the Eastern view that the original sin was not inherited and the Western (Auguistinian) view that it was!
The Reformed argument that the middle voice is "almost never used" is weak, imo. Almost doesn't mean never. This argument is made that much weaker by the fact that "almost never" or truly never used exceptions are not dismissed in other instances.
For example, nowhere in the New Testament does the standalone ανοθην (anothen) in John 3:3 mean "again," but most English-language Bibles translate it as such—for doctrinal reasons, ignoring the lexicon completely.
Other than the Reformed "almost never used" argument as their only Trump card, other sources point to a different conclusion.
I consulted the Church Slavonic version which is the closest in my opinion to the Greek (simply because Church Slavonic was created based on Greek and for the purpose of one-on-one translation from Greek). There is no doubt that it renders Act 13:48 in the passive voice...
...but there is also no indcation of any predestination implied here, implicitly or explicitly!
This is good because there is no ambiguity in the Slavonic version whatsoever as regard their appointment bieng made right there and then.
The Greek Church never taught the Reformed-type predestination, and the Slavonic version certainly does not read it as something eternally arranged. Rather they were set (not pre-set) for salvation by believing.
In summery, the Eastern view is that "Divine determination depends on the life of a man, and not his life upon the determination." [Bishop +Theofan the Recluse]
(like the sabbath was made for man and not man for sabbath... Unfortunately, the Western Church wasn't so lucky as to stick to its original teaching. The Latin Vulgate Bible added the word prae to the original ordinati to create praeordinati (lit. pre-arranged, pre-ordianed) during St. Augustine's lifetime (4th century), obviously under his inlfuence and his strong denial of free will (before he recanted).
Prior to that the Latin text read the same as the Slavonic does, i.e. simply "they were arranged (ordinati) to life everlasting." by believing.
However, this detail is interesting to me as evidence of an ongoing corruption and manipulation of biblical manuscripts in the early Church (gasp!) in order to make the "pristine" word of God conform to the evolving doctrine!
The Bible, as usual, being so thoroughly redacted over time, is full of contrasting statements. Thus, biblical support exists for predestination (mostly Paul) and free will (mostly the Old Testament), and Act 13:48 is no exception to this dichotomy.
Finally, I found this, imo, fairy well styled orthodox summary of Acts 13:48 as given by John Wesley:
“Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.”
and Jesus then explains.
“Exactly, Gnostic. He reveals the mystery of the parable to a select few. Doesn't get much more Gnostic than that.”
Hardly. In chapter 10 he had already told the disciples to preach from the house tops what he had told them in secret and at the end of Matthew he commands them to go with the message to the whole world. Within a few years Matthew records Jesus words for anyone to read. Gnostism? Nope.
“But the Bible tells us that hardening of the heart is God's doing. So, if their hearts were hardened it wasn't their will but God's will.”
Where is that stated? If you are referring to John 12:40 wherein Isaiah 6:10 is quoted, in both cases it is the REACTION of people to Jesus’ performance of miracles and Isaiah's preaching that constituted the hardheartedness.
So it is said, God did it though the people acted quite freely of their own will.
We are warned not to harden our own hearts.
I know why he spoke in parables. That was not the issue. I stated that the reason some didn't get it was because God dind't give them the spiritual "eyes and ears" so they couldn't. Our friends betty boop and Alamo-Girl seem to have a different opinion on that, so you are preaching to the wrong poster. Hash it out with them.
Yes, you have to believe in both. Very perceptive of you.
If our salvation depended on our fulfilling our "personal responsibilities," all men would be damned.
All men are under the curse of Adam. All men are sinners. All men "deserve" condemnation and eternal punishment.
Before the foundation of the world God mercifully chose for Himself, for His own glory and purpose, some men to redeem by the death and resurrection of His dear Son who has purchased their sins and paid for every one of them. These people, from all nations and races and eras, make up the family of God on earth. They have always been His.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" -- Eph. 1:4
Those men, through nothing in themselves, will, at a time of God's choosing, know their salvation has been won by Christ alone and believe in Him as Lord, God and Redeemer to the saving of their souls.
Therefore, all men are responsible for every sin they commit. But not all sins are paid for by Christ. Only the sins of His flock. The rest stand condemned in their sins which is exactly where they want to be.
So even if God allowed me no freedom of movement, nevertheless I accept personal responsibility for my own thoughts and deeds, confess my sins and repent.
There is NOTHING that differentiates me, a believer, from the non-believing murderer but the obedience and righteousness of Christ, mercifully imputed to me. It is HIS "personal responsibility" that saved me, all by grace alone.
As I said before, this grace brings with it a sorrow for our sins, a desire to repent, and a stronger intent to live a life through Christ that glorifies God.
And because God is all loving and holy, this results in a happier, more productive life for those who are His. Christianity is the epitome of mental well-being. 8~)
I did notice you were giving the reformed perspective. I just wish you believed it. 8~)
I think you are missing the poing (again). Read #635.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.