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To: mountn man

“Next, if you would have read the verses that I sent you, it would have been pretty obvious that the Roman empire WAS NOT implied.”

OK, let’s look at some of your supposed “other meanings” and read your verses in context:

Acts 17:31

Paul is speaking to Greeks in Athens on the Aeropagus. Let’s see...would Greeks of that day understand oikumene as being composed of countries that didn’t even exist yet, or of the Roman Empire???

Let’s see what one of your transliterations says:

“the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians

“the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire”

Hmmm...what’s more logical to assume, that Paul used the word “oikumene” to mean the world as we know it today, or the world as his audience knew it back then???

Yeah, that’s a tough one. O.o

How ‘bout another: Romans 10:18

But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: “Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world.” Romans 10:18 (NKJV)

You do understand that Paul is quoting Psalms 19:4 here, right?

Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun, Psalms 19:4 (NKJV)

Paul uses 2 Greek words to translate from the Hebrew of Psalms 19:4: “ge”, for “earth” which translated means, “soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application)” and “oikoumene”, which translated here means, “ land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically, the Roman empire,”

Paul was using both words - as did David - to convey that the gospel was being spread throughout the whole earth (”ge”) and the Roman Empire (oikoumene).

Again, the Greek word oikoumene remains consistent with the usage that refers to the Roman Empire.

I’ll let you digest that and deal with the rest later.


287 posted on 07/03/2010 11:58:11 PM PDT by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: Stingray; GiovannaNicoletta; Quix
Interesting response, lets open the context a little wider,Acts 17:30 & 31 30"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

So from your response, that world means Roman empire, God isn't going to judge the "World", just the Roman empire. I guess that would mean that the people everywhere that should repent should only be in the Roman empire.

Now lets look at Psalm 19:4 which you correctly point out that Paul quoted in Romans 10:18. But better yet, lets look into broader context of Psalm 19, so we can really see what point David was making, and thereby also Paul.

But first, one thing, Davids time was 200 YEARS BEFORE the Roman empire arrived. So obviously David WASN'T talking of the Roman empire.

Now to Psalm 19: 1-6 1The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
2Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
3There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard.
4Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world In them He has placed a tent for the sun,
5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

The Psalmist is talking of the vastness of the glory of Gods handywork. Across the heavens, and through all the earth.

Since Paul is quoting this verse, one would have to assume he was MEANING its context also. Well its quite obvious that the context of the whole world means THE WHOLE WORLD, and since David isn't talking about the Roman empire, because its not in existance yet, one would NATURALLY assume that Paul was talking about THE WHOLE WORLD.

And seeing that Strongs gives definitions including AND OTHER THAN, the Roman empire, we have to look at those possible meanings. And since one of those other meanings is THE WHOLE WORLD, and that appears to be the context of what Paul quoted, the natural assumption would be that is what Paul meant.

292 posted on 07/04/2010 12:44:21 AM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Stingray

305 posted on 07/04/2010 7:39:34 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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