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This issue is not whether man is justifed by works or faith, as I have already established that salvation is by faith, not works, though it is a faith that will produce works, as JFB affirms, but your statement that Ja. 2:20 “isn’t saying that the person is unsaved” is still absurd, as that is he argument indeed against those who claim salvation by a faith that will not evidence itself. The good commentator you invoked, states, 20. "vain [man]- who deceivest thyself with a delusive hope," resting on an unreal faith. Your insistence that Lot - who did put his life in danger to save spiritual brethren, (Gn. 19:6-10) and was not cognizant of his incest, being drunk thru his bartending daughters, after losing wife, home and belongings - showed no signs of saving faith but will-full rebellion, also manifests blindness, and not righteous judgment. If the understanding of classic commentators will make any difference, And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) (2 Peter 2:7-8) Here observe, 1. The character given of Lot; he is called a just man; this he was as to the generally prevailing bent of his heart and through the main of his conversation. God does not account men just or unjust from one single act, but from their general course of life. And here is a just man in the midst of a most corrupt and profligate generation universally gone off from all good. He does not follow the multitude to do evil, but in a city of injustice he walks uprightly. 2. The impression the sins of others made upon this righteous man. Though the sinner takes pleasure in his wickedness, it is a grief and vexation to the soul of the righteous. In bad company we cannot escape either guilt or grief. Let the sins of others be a trouble to us, otherwise it will not be possible for us to keep ourselves pure. 3. Here is a particular mention of the duration and continuance of this good man's grief and vexation: it was from day to day. Being accustomed to hear and see their wickedness did not reconcile him to it, nor abate of the horror that was occasioned by it. - Matthew Henry (1662 - 1714) 1Pt. 2:8: That righteous man dwelling among them - Lot, after his departure from Abraham, A. M. 2086, lived at Sodom till A. M. 2107, a space of about twenty years; and, as he had a righteous soul, he must have been tormented with the abominations of that people from day to day. The word εβασανιζεν, tormented, is not less emphatic than the word καταπονουμενον, grievously pained, in the preceding verse, and shows what this man must have felt in dwelling so long among a people so abandoned. - Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832) As long as he lived in Sodom he [distinctly] maintained the character of an upright and holy man. - Albert Barnes (1798-1870) It was actually Jewish commentators, who hold to justification by works, which read things into the text to unduly malign the character of this man as no good. "The Jews are very injurious to this good man's character, and give a very different one of him from this of the apostle's; they call him a wicked man, a perfect wicked man, as wicked as the inhabitants of Sodom." (Tzeror Hammot, fol. 14. 4. & 16. 4. & 20. 2. Jarchi in Gen. xiii. 10. Zohar in Gen. fol. 57. 2. Jarchi in Gen. xiii. 13. Zohar in Gen. fol. 56. 1, 2. Tzeror Hammor, fol. 7. 3. & 14. 3. & 20. 2. Bereshit Rabba, sect. 44. fol. 39. 1) - Dr. John Gill (1690-1771) As for recanting one's faith while yet claiming justification, i responded to that in post 102 and my responses, but this is not a subject for more of your superficial examinations.

Formatted:

This issue is not whether man is justified by works or faith, as I have already established that salvation is by faith, not works, though it is a faith that will produce works, as JFB affirms, but your statement that Ja. 2:20 “isn’t saying that the person is unsaved” is still absurd, as that is he argument indeed against those who claim salvation by a faith that will not evidence itself. The good commentator you invoked, states, 20. "vain [man]- who deceivest thyself with a delusive hope," resting on an unreal faith. Your insistence that Lot - who did put his life in danger to save spiritual brethren, (Gn. 19:6-10) and was not cognizant of his incest, being drunk thru his bartending daughters, after losing wife, home and belongings - showed no signs of saving faith but will-full rebellion, also manifests blindness, and not righteous judgment.

If the understanding of classic commentators will make any difference, And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) (2 Peter 2:7-8)

Here observe,

1. The character given of Lot; he is called a just man; this he was as to the generally prevailing bent of his heart and through the main of his conversation. God does not account men just or unjust from one single act, but from their general course of life. And here is a just man in the midst of a most corrupt and profligate generation universally gone off from all good. He does not follow the multitude to do evil, but in a city of injustice he walks uprightly.

2. The impression the sins of others made upon this righteous man. Though the sinner takes pleasure in his wickedness, it is a grief and vexation to the soul of the righteous. In bad company we cannot escape either guilt or grief. Let the sins of others be a trouble to us, otherwise it will not be possible for us to keep ourselves pure.

3. Here is a particular mention of the duration and continuance of this good man's grief and vexation: it was from day to day. Being accustomed to hear and see their wickedness did not reconcile him to it, nor abate of the horror that was occasioned by it. - Matthew Henry (1662 - 1714)

1Pt. 2:8:

That righteous man dwelling among them - Lot, after his departure from Abraham, A. M. 2086, lived at Sodom till A. M. 2107, a space of about twenty years; and, as he had a righteous soul, he must have been tormented with the abominations of that people from day to day. The word εβασανιζεν, tormented, is not less emphatic than the word καταπονουμενον, grievously pained, in the preceding verse, and shows what this man must have felt in dwelling so long among a people so abandoned. - Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832)

As long as he lived in Sodom he [distinctly] maintained the character of an upright and holy man. - Albert Barnes (1798-1870)

It was actually Jewish commentators, who hold to justification by works, which read things into the text to unduly malign the character of this man as no good. "The Jews are very injurious to this good man's character, and give a very different one of him from this of the apostle's; they call him a wicked man, a perfect wicked man, as wicked as the inhabitants of Sodom." (Tzeror Hammot, fol. 14. 4. & 16. 4. & 20. 2. Jarchi in Gen. xiii. 10. Zohar in Gen. fol. 57. 2. Jarchi in Gen. xiii. 13. Zohar in Gen. fol. 56. 1, 2. Tzeror Hammor, fol. 7. 3. & 14. 3. & 20. 2. Bereshit Rabba, sect. 44. fol. 39. 1) - Dr. John Gill (1690-1771)

As for recanting one's faith while yet claiming justification, i responded to that in post 102 and my responses, but this is not a subject for more of your superficial examinations.

Use some paragraphs.

This issue is not whether man is justifed by works or faith, as I have already established that salvation is by faith, not works, though it is a faith that will produce works, as JFB affirms, but your statement that Ja. 2:20 “isn’t saying that the person is unsaved” is still absurd, as that is he argument indeed against those who claim salvation by a faith that will not evidence itself. The good commentator you invoked, states, 20. "vain [man]- who deceivest thyself with a delusive hope," resting on an unreal faith.

The passage doesn't say it is an 'unreal' faith, it says it is a DEAD faith.

Which means it once was alive, but it died.

Regarding Lot, where was the EVIDENCE that was SEEN of that faith?

That is what James is talking about, not what Lot 'felt'.

Lot didn't change anything in his life to show that faith.

He couldn't even convince his own family to flee the city.

So Lot's faith was a DEAD faith, it produced no fruits that could be seen.

Lot was saved because Abraham prayed for him, or else he would have died in the city with the rest of the sinners.

Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832) As long as he lived in Sodom he [distinctly] maintained the character of an upright and holy man.

He did?

Proof?

His daughters certainly picked up some bad habits.

As for recanting one's faith while yet claiming justification, i responded to that in post 102 and my responses, but this is not a subject for more of your superficial examinations.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

And frankly, don't care.

The tree shows its life by its fruits, but it was alive before either fruits or even leaves appeared.

Fruits SHOW faith.

If you don't have fruit you either may be 1. unsaved or 2. saved but apostate.