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To: daniel1212

I have not addressed these verses due to time previous time restraints - I’m a busy man. I do not question your faith or the fact that you have been born again. Most folks who are diligently searching the Scriptures are born again.
Galatians 4:9-11 Paul is addressing those who were being seduced by the Judaizers to move back in the rituals and ceremonies of the law and find themselves in bondage to that law again. To do so would not negate their salvation, but rob them of the abundant freedom they had received in Christ - freedom from the law.

Galatians 5:12 Paul again addressing the same issue, as Christians we are free from the law which brings death.

Hebrews 10:26,27 Verse 26 is defining apostasy. An apostate has seen and heard the truth, he knows the truth, but has wilfully rejected it. This does not mean he has received Christ and then rejected. He came to the knowledge and rejected the truth. The apostate is now hopeless, beyond salvation because he has rejected the only truth that can save him. The lost man who has not been presented the truth, can still be saved by accepting Christ. Apostasy is closely related to the unpardonable sin that the Pharisees were guilty of. They knew the truth, stood in His presence and wilfully rejected Him - even accused Him of being Satanic.

Romans 11:22 Same thing applies to being “cut-off” as to above Scriptures. Not everyone sitting in church is saved, even some who believe they are. People who hear the truth on a regular basis and turn from it are simply not genuine. Those who are not genuine do not persevere and are eventually cut-off from opportunity because they have rejected the kindness of God.

I apologize if I was misunderstood and came on a little strong toward you. This is an issue dear to my heart because I once sat where you do now with regard to this issue and went through real battle in pursuing the truth of this issue. It’s fearful thing to live on a daily basis wandering if I might lose my salvation. I was attending Jimmy Swaggart Bible College when he fell and went on to graduate from Southeastern Univeristy (Assmbly of God). Today I pastor a Southern Baptist Church in Tampa. I know many Pentecostals who are born-again and love God, yet they espouse this doctrine of losing one’s salvation. I understand the battle within and without on this matter. God bless you and I pray you will come to light on the subject. Pray, study the Scriptures and ask God to do whatever is necessary to help you see clear on it. He will!


150 posted on 06/30/2010 3:02:31 PM PDT by evangmlw
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To: evangmlw
Galatians 4:9-11 Paul is addressing those who were being seduced by the Judaizers to move back in the rituals and ceremonies of the law and find themselves in bondage to that law again. To do so would not negate their salvation, but rob them of the abundant freedom they had received in Christ - freedom from the law.

This interpretation requires Christ profiting them nothing and becoming of “none effect”, having “fallen from grace,” (5:2-4) and making Paul's labor towards them to be “in vain”, (4:11) to mean simply losing abundant freedom. This is hardly the most warranted interpretation, versus meaning that by embracing Judaism they would have effectively forsaken faith in Christ and thus His salvation.

Hebrews 10:26,27 Verse 26 is defining apostasy. An apostate has seen and heard the truth, he knows the truth, but has wilfully rejected it. This does not mean he has received Christ and then rejected. He came to the knowledge and rejected the truth. The apostate is now hopeless, beyond salvation because he has rejected the only truth that can save him. The lost man who has not been presented the truth, can still be saved by accepting Christ. Apostasy is closely related to the unpardonable sin that the Pharisees were guilty of. They knew the truth, stood in His presence and wilfully rejected Him - even accused Him of being Satanic.

This is the typical OSAS interpretation, which i see as outcome-based, as to hold that the subjects at issue are not believers is untenable.

First, unbelievers are not exhorted, "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) {24} And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: {25} Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." (Heb 10:23-25)

Nor would they have been souls of whom Paul said, "For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. {35} Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. "(Heb 10:34-36)

Second, these souls were those who were sanctified by the blood of Jesus, but profaned it by turning back. (v. 29)

Third, their judgment is because “the Lord shall judge His people.” (v. 30)

As the addressees here were of faith, thus the exhortation is not that of coming to faith but continuing in the faith, versus sinning will-fully after being enlightened and believing the truth. To do the latter, in willfully walking away from the faith, in a contrasting manner as to how he came to Christ, makes one a subject of wrath, as he is even more accountable than an unbeliever. This does not mean backsliders cannot repent, but when souls who have realized given much grace recant it, or impenitently given themselves over to sin, then they are more damnable than even unbelievers. They (we) are therefore reminded that real believers are not “them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” (Heb. 10:39)

In addition, Heb 3:6 tell us that we are part of the house of Christ, “if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end," versus being like those Hebrews which were saved under Moses, but turned back in unbelief.

The Hebrews Christians were under much pressure to return to Judaism, while the Thessalonians, who had been born again, were tempted to return to paganism, and Paul's labor would had been in vain if they had yielded to this pressure.

(1 Th 1:4-6) "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. {5} For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. {6} And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:"

(1 Th 2:13) "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

(1 Th 3:4-5) "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know. {5} For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain."

Romans 11:22 Same thing applies to being “cut-off” as to above Scriptures. Not everyone sitting in church is saved, even some who believe they are. People who hear the truth on a regular basis and turn from it are simply not genuine. Those who are not genuine do not persevere and are eventually cut-off from opportunity because they have rejected the kindness of God.

This is clearly addressing believers, and which it contrasts with unbelieving Jews, and thus if the former were not elect, then the comparison fails. But as this deals with people groups, it can be somewhat plausibly explained as warning of the Gentiles future rejecting and blindness, and thus it is not among the strongest texts militating against OSAS.

I apologize if I was misunderstood and came on a little strong toward you. This is an issue dear to my heart because I once sat where you do now with regard to this issue and went through real battle in pursuing the truth of this issue.

I do not think you sit where i sit. I was discipled in an OSAS church, and would rather believe that, but i see too many texts, in context, conveying a salvation which is conditional upon faith, and warnings that believers can choose to recant that faith, and forfeit its salvific benefits, and cannot honestly accept the OSAS arguments that i have heard which attempt to negate these. Yet i also see the weight of texts such as Eph. 1:13 in favor of eternal security, while again, 2Pet. 1:0 shows how to have eternal security, by reaching a certain level of maturity.

It’s fearful thing to live on a daily basis wandering if I might lose my salvation.

It is one thing to inculcate daily fear among penitent and overall Godly souls based upon their failings, and another to warn of impenitently willfully practicing know sin. The believer, even those who hold that salvation can be lost, must actually have confidence in God's keeping power in order to overcome sin in faith-dependance upon God and His power, and can have assurance that they are saved, based upon the “these things” of as 1Jn. 5:13, while also recognizing that to walk away form Christ means forfeiting what faith procures.

I was attending Jimmy Swaggart Bible College when he fell and went on to graduate from Southeastern Univeristy (Assmbly of God). Today I pastor a Southern Baptist Church in Tampa. I know many Pentecostals who are born-again and love God, yet they espouse this doctrine of losing one’s salvation. I understand the battle within and without on this matter. God bless you and I pray you will come to light on the subject. Pray, study the Scriptures and ask God to do whatever is necessary to help you see clear on it. He will!

Praise God brother for your overall work and labor of love.

This has been a matter of much prayer, and i am calling it as i see it, but outside of extremes, this is not a salvific issue, as long as one holds to the conservative school of OSAS, in recognition that it is only a faith which is characterized by faith-obedience, and repentance when convicted of failing that, that is salvific. And those of the probationary school must balance the fear of the Lord with the comfort of the Holy Ghost, and make souls look to Jesus, to overcome besetting sins. (Heb. 12:1,2)

153 posted on 07/01/2010 7:23:30 AM PDT by daniel1212 ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out " (Acts 3:19))
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