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To: annalex; boatbums; Iscool; Quix
The context of Romans 4 is circumcision, that is, the works of Hebrew Law (see verse 10). We all agree, these are not salvific.

You mean laws like infant baptism, communion once a year, confession once a year , mandatory mass on Sundays? You mean religious laws like that ??

Roman Catholism is Judaism redux.. the "vestments " the alter , the "sacrifice,"the priest"

Jesus came to fulfill the law not to make new ones...men were condemned under the jewish laws

Even when there was a simple covenant, a simple single law man could not keep it

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. - Gen 2:16-17

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. - Rom 7:7-9

When one says "You are saved by grace, BUT."..they have negated everything they said before the but.. it is no longer a salvation by grace it is a self made earned salvation that makes God your debtor.. God owes me salvation cause I kept the religious laws and I did "good" works ... So pay up God ya owe me

"If any one saith, that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."
(Council of Trent, Canons on Justification).

Just smiling as I remember the curses laid against those of us that trust Christ still are in effect today ...

963 posted on 06/21/2010 5:50:34 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; boatbums; Iscool; Quix
You mean laws like infant baptism, communion once a year, confession once a year , mandatory mass on Sundays? You mean religious laws like that ??

Yes, these, too. The sacraments save because they are visible vehicles of invisible grace, voluntarily received. The discipline surrounding the sacraments -- the Laws of the Church --do not save. They tell you when you endanger your soul by straying too far from the community of Christian faith; they are useful but not salvific. Circumcision was useful as well, by the way.

Infant baptism is not a discipline of the Church, strictly speaking (people get baptized when they or their sponsors are ready for the committment), but other things that you mentioned are.

Roman Catholism is Judaism redux

Roman Catholism is Judaism fulfilled. We are the Heavenly Jerusalem today. Our priests are true priests in the order of Melchisedek. We build the true temple after the Mosaic model, and we could do it because grace was given us.

When one says "You are saved by grace, BUT..."

The Church does not say any "but". We are saved by grace alone, period. Other things, faith and works, are the consequence of it (Eth 2:8-10). It is the Protestant heresy to add "sola fide" to the divinelty proclaimed gospel of "sole gracia", and twist St. Paul's words in the process.

1,032 posted on 06/22/2010 5:12:11 AM PDT by annalex
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