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To: count-your-change

“”Gal. 3:13. Guess Paul was a “fundamentalist literalist””

Regarding Gal 3:13...

This is what we call typology,dear friend .It’s is how we understand the Scriptures in many cases, The O.T is revealed in the N.T and a N.T type is always superior to the O.T

Now, here is how it’s used to show Christ is Divine and Triune

From scripturecatholic.com

Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the Son

Exodus 3:14 - God says “I AM who I AM” - John 8:58 - Jesus says “Before Abraham was, I AM” in reference to Himself.

Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word - Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.

Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up - John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.

Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God’s hand - John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus’ hand.

Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him - Heb. 1:6 - the “Him” is Jesus the Son.

2 Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation - Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.

Psalm 19:7 - the law of the Lord is perfect - Gal. 6:2 - fulfill the law of Christ.

Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory - 1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.

Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son - Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.

Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work - Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.

Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope - 1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.

Psalm 89:27 – I will make him the first-born, the highest (“elyon” which refers to God) of the kings of the earth - John 18:36-27 – Jesus is this first-born king.

Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all - John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.

Psalms 110:1 - the Lord (Yahweh) said to my Lord - Jesus = Yhwh - Acts 2:34-36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God - Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.

Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects - Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.

Isaiah 7:14 - a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel which means “God is with us” - Matt. 1:23 - this Son is Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.

Isaiah 9:6 - the child to be born shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 25:8 - God swallows up death in victory - 2 Tim. 1:10 - Jesus abolishes death and brings life and immortality.

Isaiah 40:8 - the Word of God shall stand forever - Matt. 24:35 - the Words of Jesus shall not pass away.

Isaiah 42:8 - God gives His glory to no other - John 17:5; Heb. 1:3 - yet Jesus has the same glory as the Father.

Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord God is redeemer - Titus 2:14 - Jesus is the redeemer.

Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord God is the first and the last - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 - Jesus is the first and the last.

Isaiah 45:19 - I, the Lord God, did not speak in secret - John 18:20 - Jesus said “I have said nothing secretly.”

Isaiah 45:23 - to God, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear. Phil. 2:10-11 - at Jesus’ name every knee should bow and tongue confess.

Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One - Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.

Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light - Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.

Jer. 17:10 - the Lord searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds - Rev. 2:23 - Jesus searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds.

Ezek. 1:26-28; Daniel 7:9 - God’s glorious appearance - Rev. 1:13-16 - Jesus’ glorious appearance.

Ezek. 34:11-31 - God the Father is the shepherd of the flock - John 10:7-29 - Jesus is the shepherd of the flock.

Ezek. 34:16 - God seeks to save that which was lost - Luke 19:10 - Jesus seeks to save that which was lost.

Ezek. 34:17 - God judges between cattle, rams and goats - Matt. 25:32 - Jesus judges and separates the goats from the sheep.

Ezek. 43:2 - God’s voice was like a noise of many waters - Rev. 1:15 - Jesus’ voice was like the sound of many waters.

Dan. 2:47 - the Lord is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords - Rev. 17:14 - Jesus the Lamb is the Lord of Lords.

And of course the Early Christians wrote abour it too

some examples....

“For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable God.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 121 (A.D. 155).

“But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind, had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos.” Athenagoras, Plea for Christians, 10 (A.D. 177).

“For Scripture as much announces Christ as also God, as it announces God Himself as man.” Novatian, Concerning the Trinity, 11 (A.D. 235).

“If of Christ; he could not become His temple, since he denies that Christ is God.” Cyprian, To Jubaianus, Epistle 72[73]:12 (A.D. 256).


2,378 posted on 07/02/2010 3:08:40 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
I understand types and anti-types, pretty basic concept.

You quoted Deut.:
Take a look at Deuteronomy 21:23 for instance,it says .. “for he is accursed of God that hangeth on a tree”

Paul said in quoting this Scripture:
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:” Gal. 3:13.

So while the cut and paste “From scripturecatholic.com” is interesting , it really doesn't pertain to the question of whether Paul was what you described , a “fundamentalist, literalist” does it?

And of course it doesn't say anything about Christ “ being made a curse for us”, does it?

Nor have you suggested how Gal. 3:13 might be understood if NOT literally.

Thanks anyway.

2,379 posted on 07/02/2010 4:40:42 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: stfassisi
"Exodus 3:14 - God says “I AM who I AM” - John 8:58 - Jesus says “Before Abraham was, I AM” in reference to Himself."

This is naturally a favorite of many English-speaking Christians, SFA, but it is not so neatly clear cut. The Greek OT Septuagint (LXX) reads as follows:

“I am the being (ego eimi)” or "I am who is."

But the Hebrew Bible says "I will be what I will be" (ehyeh asher ehyeh), or literally "I shall become who I am becoming."

The tense in LXX is present, in Hebrew it is imperfect future.

But Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and he would have quoted the Hebrew Bible or the Targum (in Aramaic), and not in Greek.

For example, the (unofficial) Neofiti Targum (unlike the official Onkelos Targum) renders 3:14 in an exegetical manner:

"The one who said and the world came into existence from the beginning; and is to say again: Be, and it will be".

Now, targum in Hebrew means "translation" and that's what early targums were; they were freelance translations of the Hebrew text for the Aramaic speaking Jews after their return from the Babylonian captivity. They no longer spoke Hebrew but Aramaic which is like Italian is to Latin, or koine Greek is to modern Greek, or Church Slavonic is to Slavic languages - closely related but incomprehensible.

But the word Targum (capitalized) refers specifically to Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh, i.e. the Pentutech, the Prophets and the Writings). Of these there are many, but generally the two most often used are the Onkelos (Torah, the Teaching) and the Jonathan (Ketuvim, the Prophets).

The pseudo-Jonathan and the Jerusalem Targums, the so-called "western targums," which contradict the "official Targums" render Exodus 3:14 as "He who spake, and the world was; who spake, and all things existed."

Also the 10th century Arabic translations takes the liberty of changing the the "I" into "The Eternal, who passes not away."

etc.

So, it is very clear that everything depends on which version is cherry-picked to fit the particular doctrine and that nothing in the Bible can be asserted with any certainty, except that it is closely tailored to doctrine.

Luckily for the architects of doctrine there never lacks a steady supply of fitting versions of the Bible for the task. It's like tailor-made Leggo blocks, if you get the drift.

Just something to keep in mind when considering Bible quotes and ancient quotes in general. My advice is: take them with a grain of salt. :)

2,385 posted on 07/04/2010 11:36:33 AM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: stfassisi
Regarding Gal 3:13...This is what we call typology

What St. Paul does in Galatians 3 is build his own theology, not typology, SFA, by suggesting that God preposterously used the Law to assure humanity always fails and is cursed by it.

2,386 posted on 07/04/2010 1:40:22 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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