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To: Natural Law; Dr. Eckleburg; Iscool
Catholics do not oppose Scripture. We simply do not accept that all of the revealed Word is contained within Scripture and therefore do not have to artificially inflate, conflate, stretch, misinterpret and distort their meanings in a vain attempt to make them accomplish what they were never intended to do.

What is the measurement that you use to distinguish false revelation from true revelation?

How do YOU know with CERTAINTY that the words or traditions of men are true and not from the deceiver? or do you care??

Jesus warned about this

Mat 24:11 — And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Peter worried about this

2Pe 2:1 — But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1Jo 4:1 — Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How do YOU test the spirits?

179 posted on 06/16/2010 11:52:47 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
"What is the measurement..."

As you answer so also shall you receive. When you begin answering any of the questions I pose I will respond to yours. Lets start with this:

Where in Scripture does it command that the Christian faith must be based exclusively on a book and on what biblical basis do Protestants think that everything that Jesus and the apostles taught is captured in the New Testament writings?

Until you demonstrate fidelity to your own creed you will not be taken seriously enough to entertain answers to your demands.

186 posted on 06/16/2010 12:49:53 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: RnMomof7

INDEED.


202 posted on 06/16/2010 4:23:58 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: RnMomof7; Iscool
traditions of men

I found this great link...

INSPIRATION OF SCRIPTURE IN THE ENGLISH REFORMERS

"...The question naturally arose (and this, too, is a question of importance for our day no less than it was in the sixteenth century) as to how far credence was to be given to the Church Fathers and their writings. Let Bishop Jewel answer: “What say we of the fathers, Augustine, Ambrose, Hierome, Cyprian, &c.? What shall we think of them, or what account may we make of them? They be interpreters of the Word of God. They were learned men, and learned fathers; the instruments of the mercy of God, and vessels full of grace. We despise them not, we read them, we reverence them, and give thanks unto God for them. They were witnesses unto the truth, they were worthy pillars and ornaments in the church of God. Yet they may not be compared with the word of God. We may not build upon them: we may not make them the foundation and warrant of our conscience: we may not put our trust in them. Our trust is in the name of the Lord.” Jewel cites the declaration of Augustine, the greatest of the Fathers, as follows: “‘Neither weigh we the writings of all men, be they never so worthy and catholic, as we weigh the canonical scriptures; but that, saving the reverence that is due unto them, we may mislike and refuse somewhat in their writings, if we find that they have taught otherwise than the truth may bear. Such am I in the writings of others, and such would I wish others to be in mine’“ (see Augustine, Ep. CXLVIII, ad Fortunatianum). “Some things I believe,” Jewel continues, “and some things which they write I cannot believe. I weigh them not as the holy and canonical scriptures. Cyprian was a doctor of the church, yet he was deceived: Hierome was a doctor of the church, yet he was deceived: Augustine was a doctor of the church, yet he wrote a book of Retractations; he acknowledged that he was deceived.” Jewel adduces further evidence from the writings of the Fathers, and then proceeds: “I could shew many the like speeches of the ancient fathers, wherein they reverence the holy scriptures; as to which only they give consent without gainsaying; which can neither deceive nor be deceived.” 14

“What is the cause,” asks Tyndale, “that we damn some of Origen’s works and allow some? How know we that some is heresy and some not? By the scripture, I trow. How know we that St Augustine (which is the best, or one of the best, that ever wrote upon the scripture) wrote many things amiss at the beginning, as many other doctors do? Verily, by the scriptures; as he himself well perceived afterward, when he looked more diligently upon them, and revoked many things again. He wrote of many things which he understood not when he was newly converted, ere he had thoroughly seen the scriptures, and followed the opinions of Plato, and the common persuasions of man’s wisdom that were then famous.” 15

If the authority of the Fathers must be subject to that of holy Scripture, so also must the authority of the Church. In particular, Scripture is not dependent on the pronouncements of the Church for its authentication, for it is authenticated to every believer by the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit...


218 posted on 06/16/2010 5:03:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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