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To: annalex; metmom; boatbums; MarkBsnr
[the thief on the cross did exactly what after he put his faith in Christ?] He died and went to heaven

That's interesting considering that no mention of heaven is made! The thief asks Christ to remember him in his kingdom, and Jesus replies to him that he will be with him in paradise, not heaven (!?). Is paradise his kingdom? Is paradise "heaven?" Hardly.

Neither the kingdom (in Judaism) nor paradise (in Greek) mean "heaven." Furthermore, Judaism has NO CONCEPT of paradise and there is no such word in Hebrew or Aramaic Old Testament.

So, how does Jesus introduce it into the New Testament conversations? Easy, the New Testament is written in Greek, and the Greeks did have a place in the underworld (Hades), which is hardly heaven, which they called the paradise. So, to a Greek, that makes perfect sense (even thought it's not heaven). But there were no Greeks on the cross, just Jews.

So, now we have a dying Jesus speaking to a dying Jewish thief n Greek (by necessity, since there is no word paradise in Hebrew of Aramaic) that is alien to the Jewish faith. Never mind that paradise is not the place where Jesus would have ended up. In fact, the Church teaches that he descended to hell for three days, so how could he promise the thief he will be with him in paradise that same day?!?

This is just another example (like John 3:3-4) in the New Testament (Luke 23:43) of an invented conversation that did not take place unless the Jews were speaking and thinking Greek!

Of course, the author of Luke wasn't concerned with such pedantic details getting in the way of his inspiration. He was writing a gospel in Greek and for the Greeks who knew next to nothing about the Jews and their beliefs, so no one would see a discrepancy.

Thus, sadly, another pillar of Christianity, the famous thief on the cross story, turns out to be a fable.

1,767 posted on 06/24/2010 8:12:32 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: kosta50; metmom; boatbums; MarkBsnr
paradise, not heaven

Understandable hellenism, coming from Greek St. Luke; possibly also addressed to a non-Jew, and hence indeed spoken in Greek. Since St. Dismas was promised to be with Christ we understand that he was to be in His Kingdom, whatever the toponymy, and whatever detours Christ Himself was to take on His way.

The important point for us to understand though is that his good works (vv. 40, 41) preceded his conversion (v.42).

1,871 posted on 06/25/2010 5:16:45 AM PDT by annalex
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