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To: annalex; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...
To reiterate with a blanket statement, priests and the Catholic Church are a gift of God to us indeed; the Holy Scripture records that gift being given in the shape of the bishops/priests commanded to feed us the Eucharist, forgive or retain our sins, spread the gospel of salvation by grace of God alone, and give us guidance in everyday lives.

The heresy of salvation being not only by grace alone but also by faith alone is taught against in the scripture, al;most anywhere you look. We are, in scriptural fact, saved by both faith and good works, both of which are given us by the merciful God in grace.

NOPE!

A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

1. Priests in the culture of and awash in the heresies of the Vatican INSTITUTION are a plague on themselves, their sheep and the planet far too often.

2. Many of them are earnest, God fearing folks who earnestly do their best within the constraints they were given and taught to lead folks to God and help individuals walk with God. Many of them are earnestly caring, sacrificial, thoughtful, compassionate and do a marvelous job of caring for those under them. Those good works out of a good heart, however, do not save them nor anyone else. AND THEY CERTAINLY DO NOT NEGATE THE HERETICAL BLASPHEMOUS JUNK the INSTITUTION fosters and is awash in.

3. They were not, per se given nor ordained of God in anywhere near the form, format, dogma, culture etc. proffered by the Vatican INSTITUTION. The bureaucratic, magicsterical power-mongers in Rome made a great sociological, political achievement with the hierarchical tyranny over the flock--looking at it from the standpoint of the INSTITUTION.

4. HOWEVER, the 2' thick veil in THE TEMPLE was torn assunder when Christ was crucified. He's not that thrilled that the Vatican INSITUTION has reinstated it in a thousand ways. The professional priests are but one of those ways.

5. Denying and negating the PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS is a major heresy of the Vatican INSTITUTION.

6. Denying and diminishing individuals' freedom to approach God boldly face to face as it were, in Christ's Blood is a most horrific heresy, even blasphemy that many in the Vatican INSITUTION WILL BE GIVING SERIOUS ACCOUNT FOR.

7. No, Scripture does NOT instruct Priests to feed the flock per se the Lord's Supper. Rather, the Scripture instructs the spiritual leaders of the flock to FEED THEM CHRIST, THE LIVING WORD, THE BREAD OF LIFE IN SPIRITUAL MEAT TRANSFORMING THEIR LIVES BY THE WASHING OF THE WORD, THE CLEANSING OF THE BLOOD, THE ENLIVENING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT . . . as Paul mentions meat, no longer milk.

8. The Transsubstantiation thing about the Lord's Supper turns the flock into pagans and superstitionists obsessed with objects holdable in hands vs the RISEN, LIVING CHRIST WITHIN THEM BY HIS GRACE AND SPIRIT SUPERNATURALLY as they fellowship with HIM, read HIS WORD, feed on HIS WORD, walk and talk with HIM, FOCUS ON HIM vs focusing on Mary and hundreds of other Vatican INSTITUTUIONAL BLASPHEMOUS, IDOLOTROUS DISTRACTIONS & USURPATIONS from a true life of faith and intimacy with God.

9. Forgive or retain sins . . . I'm skeptical that The Lord will, in the final analysis, allow that Scripture much fulfillment at the hands of a very significant percentage of the hierarchy of the Vatican INSTITUTION. The blasphemous priorities vis a vis Mary et al negate, imho, any truly spiritual authority and anointing they MIGHT have otherwise had to forgive or retain sins or anything else the New Testament Scriptures mention for the priesthood of all Believers.

10. All Believers are tasked with spreading the Gospel as well as to exhort one another daily. This is not remotely exclusive for a professional priestly class.

11. NO! SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR THAT SALVATION IS BY FAITH ALONE. Authentic heart-felt good works follow accordingly for those persisting in walking as close to God as they know how. Misconstruing Scripture into a mangled doctrine of faith + works yields a fuzzy, indefinite 'Salvation' is a lie from the pit of hell of great damage to the Body of Christ and to the world at large.

12. Maybe I can start in where I left off with the Scriptural range of verses you cited. They are not remotely in your camp, your perspective when logically, rightly divided taking plain unrubberized definitions and unrubberized Scriptures at face value. Even those Scriptures you cite also speak for faith alone as THE VEHICLE FOR, route to SALVATION through faith in Christ's Blood alone. Or, as Scripture also puts it:

13. BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART, CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH THAT GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED. THAT IS FAITH, NOT WORKS AND NOT FAITH PLUS WORKS. Some might claim that confession with the mouth is a Salvivic work. No, not in any Salvivic sense. One can confess with the mouth for decades and without the heart attitude of faith, there's NOTHING Salvivic about the confession.

14. THROUGHOUT THE NEW TESTAMENT IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR FOR THOSE WITH EYES TO SEE, THAT FAITH ALONE IS THE BIBLICAL MODEL. Paul is clear about castigating ANY RETURN TO WORKS FOR ANY PART OF SALVATION AS SPIRITUALLY DANGEROUS, DESTRUCTIVE, FOOLISH, IN FACT, CRAZY, INSANE--AS HE ARTICULATES IN GALATIANS 3 & 4.

15. The Scriptures you mention DO, IN FACT, ARTICULATE A SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE SCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION. THEY ARE NOT REMOTELY IN SUPPORT OF FAITH + WORKS FOR SALVATION.

16. AUTHENTIC BIBLICAL GOOD WORKS ARE A MORE OR LESS NATURAL FLOW OUT OF HEART FELT FAITH--LOVE FOSTERED, LOVE FILLED FAITH PRODUCES AUTHENTIC WORKS OF GODLINESS. Automatic? I suppose it depends on the definition. Certainly such works are automatic for one CHOOSING to daily walk in communion, fellowship with Jesus, filled with His Spirit.

17. They are NOT automatic for someone with a RELIGIOUS MENTALITY--JUMPING THROUGH HOOPS TO EARN SALVATION. Most probably, such people rarely have God pleasing works to offer up to God at all.

Take your time in responding. I'm behind, too. Blessings. I agree that FR is the premier place for such exchanges. It is a main reason I donate out of my meager income.

1,612 posted on 06/24/2010 9:13:08 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Quix; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla

I am here to discuss the scripture in its relation to the teaching of the Catholic Church, or to Protestant errors. I have zero interest in discussing your thoughts about justification or about the Church, however critical of emphatically stated they are.

The only scriptural reference that you make directly is Galationas 3,4 and that letter deals with the non-salvific nature of the Hebrew law. We all agree, we are not saved by the works of the law. But neither we are saved by faith alone, see James 2:17-26.


1,947 posted on 06/25/2010 5:50:39 PM PDT by annalex
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