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To: boatbums
Sigh...Mark, Mark, Mark...I really do like you very much. We HAVE been here before, I know you must remember.

I do. It will take God to open your eyes; it is beyond me.

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

And this, by itself, contains the Nicene formula? Please show me.

Romans 8:9-11 9You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

By itself, it sounds like the Spirit is a messenger of God, rather than God, and that Jesus is lesser than God, who raised Him. Not Nicene at all.

I Cor. 3:16 16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?

What is God's Spirit, in this context? A messenger of God?

I Cor. 6:19 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

Ditto. Not Nicene at all.

II Tim. 1:14 14By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.

Ditto again.

I am beginning to think that you don't bother to look up or even read the Scripture I post to you on this. I am disappointed. If you are looking for the exact words that are found in the Nicene Creed, then I can't help you. But you cannot truthfully deny that Paul was not a believer in the trinity.

BB; you are sola scriptura; you cannot appeal to emotional beliefs. You must post from Scripture and Scripture alone. There is none of Paul's Scripture that explicitly states the Nicene formula of God. Paul even calls Jesus a man, rather than God numerous times. I am not, as a particular useful idiot accused me, a believer that Paul was anti Trinitarian. I do say, though, that based upon the Pauline writings of Scripture, that he never supports the idea of the Triune God that Christians today believe in. It was a more simple belief - that God the Father was THE GOD, and that Jesus was subordinate to God the Father. It seems as if Paul's revelation was not entirely communicated as the Nicene Council later decided.

1,521 posted on 06/23/2010 5:11:06 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
To find the teaching of the trinity, whether by “snippets” or otherwise in the Scripture is a stretch. But Catholics do appeal to Paul for support of the teaching:

“In the remaining New Testament writings numerous passages attest how clear and definite was the belief of the Apostolic Church in the three Divine Persons. In certain texts the coordination of Father, Son, and Spirit leaves no possible doubt as to the meaning of the writer. Thus in 2 Corinthians 13:13, St. Paul writes: “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the charity of God, and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all.” Here the construction shows that the Apostle is speaking of three distinct Persons. Moreover, since the names God and Holy Ghost are alike Divine names, it follows that Jesus Christ is also regarded as a Divine Person. So also, in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11: “There are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit; and there are diversities of ministries, but the same Lord: and there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all [of them] in all [persons].” (Cf. also Ephesians 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2-3)
The Blessed Trinity
www.newadvent.org/cathen/”

1,535 posted on 06/23/2010 5:40:03 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: MarkBsnr
I do say, though, that based upon the Pauline writings of Scripture, that he never supports the idea of the Triune God that Christians today believe in. It was a more simple belief - that God the Father was THE GOD, and that Jesus was subordinate to God the Father. It seems as if Paul's revelation was not entirely communicated as the Nicene Council later decided.

Well, Mark, the good news is that one doesn't have to believe the apostle Paul defined the Nicene Creed to be saved or otherwise. That comes by faith in the saving blood of Jesus Christ. FTR...sola scriptura is not defined by your narrow version of it. I thought we were having a discussion about Paul's statements on the trinity. You have said in the past, and even now, that you don't see that he understood the concept. I have tried to show you from epistles written by Paul that certainly prove he well grasped the belief. The verses discussed do appear to me to make the statements necessary to conclude his undestanding and, because his words were inspired by the Holy Spirit would not contradict the true nature of the trinity.

For reference, the Nicene Creed of 325 explicitly affirms the divinity of Jesus, applying to him the term "God". The 381 version speaks of the Holy Spirit as worshipped and glorified with the Father and the Son. These verses do that too. I am glad you believe in the trinity. It is not an easy thing to try to describe and define it in ways everyone can understand. It takes faith to accept God at his word. I have no doubt Paul "got it" and also taught it.

1,571 posted on 06/23/2010 7:52:46 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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