[boatbums]

Annalex: Wh[il]e I am perhaps too hostile to the Protestnt pastors, calling them liars, that is the reason. Protestantism is not just one possible interpretation among several, it is a system of deception designed by power mongers for self-aggrandizement. Innocent people are caught in it. Those pastors went to seminaries; they know the falsehood of their preaching, and if they don't, they havent read the Bible with an honest eye in their life.

Markbsnr: The Reformation was the result of the same temptations that satan gave to Jesus in Matthew 4:. The difference is that Jesus did not succumb.

And yet you could substitute the word "priests" for "pastors" and "Roman Catholic" for "Protestant" and the statement would be entirely applicable and true. Self-aggrandizement, wealth, power, authority, submission of the "laity" were all sins the "Church" was steeped in and which brought about a need for reform. It didn't start with Martin Luther but he, as a Catholic priest himself, recognized the depravity and wantonness of the hierarchy. The "protest" was against this surrender to Satan by those who should have known better.

Do pastors still sin? Yes. Do priests, bishops, popes? Again, yes. We are all sinners and it is only through the grace of God that any can come to him - on his terms, not ours. Until we recognize that we are redeemed through Christ and not some religion or organization, we will never let go of hostility, suspicion and negativity and we will never be able to let the light of the glorious gospel shine through us.

[Quix]

INDEED.

THX.

[MarkBsnr]

And yet you could substitute the word "priests" for "pastors" and "Roman Catholic" for "Protestant" and the statement would be entirely applicable and true. Self-aggrandizement, wealth, power, authority, submission of the "laity" were all sins the "Church" was steeped in and which brought about a need for reform.

Yes to the first part, and no to the actions taken for 'reform'. The results of the Reformation were the wreaking of Christendom from its Christian roots and splintering it into the myriad splinters of approximations of Christianity that it is today.

It didn't start with Martin Luther but he, as a Catholic priest himself, recognized the depravity and wantonness of the hierarchy.

Martin Luther reneged on his vows taken before God. The depravity is not contested. Luther's actions are.

Until we recognize that we are redeemed through Christ and not some religion or organization, we will never let go of hostility, suspicion and negativity and we will never be able to let the light of the glorious gospel shine through us.

There was a good excerpt from the Catechism some posts ago which emphasize that Grace comes from God alone; it is the Church that is commanded to spread the Good News to the World and act as a conduit or mechanism for God's Grace.

[annalex]

you could substitute the word "priests" for "pastors" and "Roman Catholic" for "Protestant" and the statement would be entirely applicable and true. Self-aggrandizement, wealth, power, authority, submission of the "laity" were all sins the "Church" was steeped in

The difference is that the authority of the Church is given her by Christ (Luke 22:19, John 20:21-23, Mt 28:18-20). The Protestant pastors are usurpers of power who did not receive their authority from anyone other than the fool who put money in the donation box. They teach the traditions they themselves invented, often agains the clear verdict of the Holy Scripture.