Posted on 06/13/2010 12:16:24 PM PDT by markomalley
Naw.
The rabid clique folks set the limbo bar a few micrometers above the floor on that long ago.
Thanks for your needed encouragement.
THAT IS A MOST PRICELESS SCRIPTURE TO ME, AS WELL.
GOD’S BEST TO YOU AND YOURS.
with fear and trembling work out your salvation. 13 For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. 14 And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world. (Phil. 2)
Note that while God is "working in us" we have to "work out" our salvation, which therefore is in the future. One cannot "fear and tremble" over things already accomplished.
Will Rogers said he never met a man he didn't like but he never met (fill in).
Or:
If he was any more ignorant, he'd have to be twins.
[TAP TAP TAP]
Attention rabid cliques!
Once more, ALL TOGETHER, now, WITH FEELING:
Very good. That should show the Proddys how it's done!
After 1600 years of practicing 2 year old prissy prancings, we do it best!
/satire
Of course not; for one thing, while surely some monks committed sins, they are not getting paid for promoting fornication and ugly music. Except maybe Luther was...
The monks brought eastern religious meditation and practices into the church
Again, without defending everything every monk ever did, I would much rather take what the monks had given us over what the secular "culture" did.
Yes. I did not like the part in the begining which seemed to say that God rather than the primary Mover, is in need of external motivation, -- but I trust it is just vagueness of expression common among Protestants, as the conclusion is good.
None of that, of course invalidates the contention between us, namely that the opennes or closedness to the unconditional unmerited grace is very much the work of the individual. The Gospel has several examples of people turning away from Christ (Lk 18:24-27, John 6:66/67, Matthew 22:3, 1 Timothy 1:19).
I've given plenty of context above in Galatians etc.
James declares that he will show his faith BY HIS WORKS.
Romans 9:32
Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:1-3 (King James Version)
Galatians 3
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:1-3 (The Message)
Galatians 3
Trust in Christ, Not the Law
1 You crazy Galatians! Did someone put a hex on you? Have you taken leave of your senses? Something crazy has happened, for it's obvious that you no longer have the crucified Jesus in clear focus in your lives. His sacrifice on the cross was certainly set before you clearly enough.
.
2-4Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you? Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it? Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!
Galatians 3:1-3 (Amplified Bible)
Galatians 3
1O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified?
.
2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
.
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have [ALREADY] believED in God might be careful to [THEN] maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Hebrews 6:1 (The Message)
Hebrews 6
1-3So come on, let's leave the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ and get on with the grand work of art. Grow up in Christ. The basic foundational truths are in place: turning your back on "salvation by self-help" and turning in trust toward God; baptismal instructions; laying on of hands; resurrection of the dead; eternal judgment. God helping us, we'll stay true to all that. But there's so much more. Let's get on with it!
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THOSE WHO LOVE GOD FIRST, FOREMOST, ALWAYS. BLESSED BE THE LORD GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB.
WISE FOLKS take the WHOLE COUNSEL OF SCRIPTURE, as led of Holy Spirit, over all other inputs, criteria, standards, assertions, perspectives.
Free Republic participants are responsible for supplying their own skin. Participants incapable of growing a thick skin should consider ignoring “open” RF threads altogether, and restrict their reading and posting activities to threads labeled “caucus” “ecumenical” “prayer” or “devotional.”
-- Alex Murphy to Natural Law, posted April 28 2010
If he was any more ignorant, he’d have to be twins.
THX FOR THE BELLY LAUGH. I’d never heard that one!
The context in Romans 11 (as well as in the preceding chapter) is the salvation equally available to Jews and Gentiles;; the point in verse 6 is that the remnant of the Jews that is saved is saved by the unmerited grace of Jesus (Whom the majority of the Jews rejected), the "works" therefore is the works of Jewish law that the pharisaic Jews thought salvific. Grace does not exclude good works motivated by charity, as we've seen in Eph. 2:10, Mt 5-7, Mt 25:31-46, Rm 2:6-10.
Of course, once work is done out of obligation of any kind or an ulterior motive of any kind, it is not salvific.
Now, now, Alex!
I thought you knew . . .
Rabid cliques sorts of folks have
notoriously horrid memories
[unless they are remembering sins of Proddys]
They rarely manage more than a few micro-seconds. Expecting them to remember something from April is expecting a
gasp
MIRACLE!
Maybe an apparition will appear and help them out.
/sar
I don’t see any contradiction with the Catholic teaching that we are saved by grace alone through faith and conditional on our good works done out of love. Works done out of obligation of the law or for an ulterior motive do not save.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:1-3 (The Message)
Galatians 3
Trust in Christ, Not the Law
1 You crazy Galatians! Did someone put a hex on you? Have you taken leave of your senses? Something crazy has happened, for it's obvious that you no longer have the crucified Jesus in clear focus in your lives. His sacrifice on the cross was certainly set before you clearly enough.
.
2-4Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you? Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it? Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!
Galatians 3:1-3 (Amplified Bible)
Galatians 3
1O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified?
.
2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
.
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have [ALREADY] believED in God might be careful to [THEN] maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Hebrews 6:1 (The Message)
Hebrews 6
1-3So come on, let's leave the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ and get on with the grand work of art. Grow up in Christ. The basic foundational truths are in place: turning your back on "salvation by self-help" and turning in trust toward God; baptismal instructions; laying on of hands; resurrection of the dead; eternal judgment. God helping us, we'll stay true to all that. But there's so much more. Let's get on with it!
. Or is it that the Vatican Rubber Bible does NOT HAVE those Scriptures in it???
On preview, hmmmm dir tag seems to be working only paragraph by paragraph.
Some version of it was attributed to mark Twain.
Many Proddys realize that seemingly most Roman Catholics et al and certainly all the members of the variouis rabic RC cliques have great difficulty seeing accurately Scripture, history, dictionaries etc. However, to . . . uhhh . . . try once again with feeling . . .
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
.
Does NOT SAY: '3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh DONE WITH THE RIGHT MOTIVE?'
Trust in Christ, Not the Law
1 You crazy Galatians! Did someone put a hex on you? Have you taken leave of your senses? Something crazy has happened, for it's obvious that you no longer have the crucified Jesus in clear focus in your lives. His sacrifice on the cross was certainly set before you clearly enough.
.
2-4Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you? Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it? Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!
Does NOT SAY: Galatians 3
Trust in Christ, Not the Law
1 You crazy Galatians! Did someone put a hex on you? Have you taken leave of your senses? Something crazy has happened, for it's obvious that you no longer have the crucified Jesus in clear focus in your lives. His sacrifice on the cross was certainly set before you clearly enough.
.
2-4Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God WITH WHITE HANKY MOTIVES? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you? Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts WHITE-WASHED IN WHITE HANKY MOTIVES, what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it--EVEN WITH THE WHITE-WASH OF WHITE-HANKY MOTIVES? Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!
Galatians 3
1O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified?
.
2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]
.
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?
.
Did NOT SAY:
Galatians 3:1-3 (Amplified Bible)
Galatians 3
1O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified?
.
2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law WITH THE WHITE-WASH OF WHITE HANKY MOTIVES and doing its works WITH THE WHITE-WASH OF WHITE HANKY MOTIVES, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals WITH THE WHITE-WASH OF WHITE HANKY MOTIVES or from a message of faith?]
.
3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh
What an OUTRAGEOUS INSULT TO THE BLOOD OF JESUS THE CHRIST!
OF COURSE, Biblical, right-heart-motivated-good-works DO FOLLOW AUTHENTIC EARNEST RELATIONSHIPS WITH JESUS WALKING IN HIS SPIRIT. HOWEVER, good works are NOT
ANY
PART OF THE SOURCE of Salvation in Christ. Else Christ needn't have bothered.
Plausible. Thx.
There are many Catholics whom I am believing are saved...Yet God apparently has not taught them not to worship Mary, not to count on works for their salvation...
And of course in His infinite mercy, (me not being a Calvinist) I know God is able and willing to save all that call on the name of His Son...
The Grace of God has come to all men...But yet they must call on the name of Jesus for salvation...
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Of course God draws all men to Himself...But we must accept the Sacrifice of His Son for our Salvation...
I believe the scriptures tell us that although one seeks God, becoming a member of the body of Christ is determined by faith in the Son...
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
I don't see where in the scriptures the knowledge of the Son will be revealed without the benefit of reading or hearing the Gospel...
It is my understanding that those who turn to God without a revelation of the Son will still have an opportunity for eternal life, outside of the church...
I believe the scriptures are clear that they will face a judgment...For those who know the law and live by the works of the law, a judgment of their adherence to the law...And those who know not the law nor the Son of God, will face a judgment of their conscience...
So my post you commented on was meant to convey that without this saving knowledge of Jesus Christ learned by reading or hearing the Gospel as God inspired it, and responding to it, you can still be welcomed into a religion and be called a Christian or child of God, even tho you are not...
THX for your kind words and most fitting excellent Scripture.
BTW, your testimony is leagues above mine in eternal impact, imho.
PRAISE GOD FOR ALL GOOD FROM ANY OF US.
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