Priests are a gift from the Heart of Christ, Pope Benedict says

CNA ^ | 6/13/2010

[Quix]

Hard to believe that assertion.

Plenty of abundant Biblical proof has been repeatedly posted.

And denied.

[small voice in the wilderness]

AMEN. It's the proud, vain, and scurrilous attempt to DARE to put an *asterisk* beside "IT IS WRITTEN".

[Natural Law]

"What a transparent side-stepping, avoidance of my point . . ."

Was there an actual point buried somewhere within that multicolored mess?

[Natural Law]

"By what authority do you oppose the scriptures???"

Catholics do not oppose Scripture. We simply do not accept that all of the revealed Word is contained within Scripture and therefore do not have to artificially inflate, conflate, stretch, misinterpret and distort their meanings in a vain attempt to make them accomplish what they were never intended to do.

[the_conscience]

Well said. It’s really not that difficult to discern and Jesus’ interaction with the Pharisees should be the bright light that illuminates the crux of the issue. But our Romanist FRiends can’t get seem to understand the difference between “sola” and “solo”.

[Alamo-Girl]

Please excuse the long post, but I would like to bring four points for the discussion which are supported by a great deal of Scripture.

1. There is only one altar on earth where blood sacrifices to God can be made.

But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, [even] unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee. - Deut 12:5-7

Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: - Deut 12:11

And that place is the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem:

And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all Solomon's desire which he was pleased to do, That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon. And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. - I Kings 9:1-3

As prophesied, all the other altars were destroyed by Josiah, see II Kings 23 (a sample verse included below)

And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. – I Kings 13:1-3

And the altars that [were] on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake [them] down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron. – II Kings 23:12

2. Christ sacrificed His own blood not on the earthly altar in the Temple at Jerusalem but rather on the heavenly altar; spiritual not physical.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. – Hebrews 9:11-12

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. - Hebrews 12:22-24

Again, the Christian’s altar is spiritual not physical (i.e. the Jewish Temple) - and our continual sacrifice is praising God, doing good and communicating (emphasis mine:).

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. – Hebrews 13:9-16

3. Christ is not just a priest. He is High Priest by authority of God the Father after the order of Melchizedek.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. – Hebrews 5:5-11

The New Testament sealed by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ did away with the need for the Levitical priesthood which is to say the mortal priesthood of the Law.

As a man, Christ’s lineage was Judah, not Aaron. More importantly, Christ is God. He is divine.

Melchizedek was not a mortal priest either and his priesthood preceded the Levitical priesthood.

The priesthood of Christ is unchangeable and endless.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. – Hebrews 7:11-28

And again, Melchizedek is not a mortal priest:

The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. – Psalms 110:4

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. – Genesis 14:18

Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine which corresponds to the Lord’s Supper.

4. The sacrifice - the Blood of the Lamb - is not like physical blood – it never runs out, never fades, never weakens, never fails.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? – Hebrews 9:14

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. – I John 1:15

And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, - Revelation 1:5

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. – Revelation 7:14

Again, the bread and the wine we observe is not just physical (whether one sees it as transubstantiated like the burning bush – or symbolic, whether by Lord's Supper or Shabbat) – it is spiritual. And the body of Christ we are to discern is not just the bread and wine but the actual spiritual body of Christ.

From Corinthians in context:

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Cor 10:1-4

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. – I Cor 10:16-17

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. – I Cor 11:23-26

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. - I Cor 11:28-32

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. - I Cor 12:12-14

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. – I Cor 12:27

And again,

[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; - Ephesians 4:4

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. – Ephesians 5:30

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. – Colossians 1:18

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. – Romans 12:4-5

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. [We are] troubled on every side, yet not distressed; [we are] perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. – 2 Cor 4:7-11

And again,

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19

In sum, we Christians look to the spiritual, to the heavenly not only to the physical “types” which point to them whether the earthly Jerusalem, Jewish Temple and Altar, blood sacrifices offered by Levitical priests, etc.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, - Revelation 21:10

The LORD [is] in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne [is] in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. - Psalms 11:4

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. - Revelation 11:19

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

[roamer_1]

It is Written.

Great post.

[blue-duncan]

Well done but can I buy you larger print, say Times New Roman 12 or 14? I am getting older!

[markomalley]

Very nice job.

Again, the bread and the wine we observe is not just physical (whether one sees it as transubstantiated like the burning bush – or symbolic, whether by Lord's Supper or Shabbat) – it is spiritual. And the body of Christ we are to discern is not just the bread and wine but the actual spiritual body of Christ.

I think that there are some here who would not agree with that assertion. But I am not one of them.

In light of this, could you share your understanding of the scene in Rev 5, particularly 5:6, in regards to this?

Thanks for the great work that you do!

[RnMomof7]

I just showed you where the scripture records that He did.

No you did not..as I pointed out that JEWISH Paul and all the jews living in Israel spoke and understood greek

They know the words for High Priest, for priest, for elder and for deacon
They NEVER used the word PRIESTHOOD in the new church

<< 1 Timothy 3 >> Douay-Rheims Bible

A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, (episkopē ...overseerer)he desireth a good work.
2 It behoveth therefore a bishop to be blameless, the husband of one wife, sober, prudent, of good behaviour, chaste, given to hospitality, a teacher,
3 Not given to wine, no striker, but modest, not quarrelsome, not covetous, but
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all chastity. 5 But if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
6 Not a neophyte: lest being puffed up with pride, he fall into the judgment of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony of them who are without: lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Deacons (diakonos...a servant, attendant, minister) in like manner chaste, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre:
9 Holding the mystery of faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved: and so let them minister, having no crime.
11 The women in like manner chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife: who rule well their children, and their own houses.
13 For they that have ministered well, shall purchase to themselves a good degree, and much confidence in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

From the Vulgate

1Ti 3:1 fidelis sermo si quis episcopatum desiderat bonum opus desiderat 1Ti 3:2 oportet ergo episcopum inreprehensibilem esse unius uxoris virum sobrium prudentem ornatum hospitalem doctorem

At NO time were the Greek words for priest or priest used in the outline of the new church

You can struggle to redefine the inspired word of God all you like..but my friend it is what it is

Douay-Rheims Bible
Eph 4:11 And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors,

No priesthood outlined

There were NO ordained priests in the new church..only the priesthood of the believer.. offering himself as a living sacrifice

Catholic writer Greg Dues has written Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide (New London: Twenty Third Publications, 2007). On page 166 he states,

"Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

"A clearly defined local leadership in the form of elders, or presbyteroi, became still more important when the original apostles and disciples of Jesus died. The chief elder in each community was often called the episkopos (Greek, 'overseer'). In English this came to be translated as 'bishop' (Latin, episcopus). Ordinarily he presided over the community's Eucharistic assembly."

"When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice, the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests. Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist. By the end of the third century people all over were using the title 'priest' (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist."

A man made position based on a doctrine of the catholic church not the design of the Holy Spirit

As I have said before do not say that the NT church was the Catholic church.. a clear reading of scripture shows no priesthood, no apostolic succession, no pope..

The RC church is a church built on tradition not scripture, continuing to attempt tp bend scripture to fit your tradition changes nothing

[RnMomof7]

I do not think you know what sola scriptura means..

[markomalley]

I do not think you know what sola scriptura means..

Maybe not. Give me your definition for it then.

[RnMomof7]

Well we also never started bogus web sites to slander the pope.. I gues the definition of sin must vary

[RnMomof7]

Amen

[Dutchboy88]

Good stuff, voice. Can we call you voice so we don’t have to write it all out? Feel free to call me DB, Dutch or whatever suits your inclination.

Nice comprehensive overview of the flow of the story from the NT together with the associated doctrines.

Grace to you.

[Dutchboy88]

I’m beginning to really like these dramatic, scroll-down answers. Very good stuff. Thanks.

[RnMomof7]

Every time those questions are raised either singularly or collectively the Protestant Community goes into full damage control attack mode.

Which is why you thought that you could change the topic of this thread with them

Hey NL..Dr and I were not born yesterday.. it is obvious you do not have a biblical answer to the absence of priests as part of the NT church of jesus Christ.. just admit it.. The RC church is built on tradition not on the infallible word of God and then move on

[RnMomof7]

We didn't have to go thru this little exercise to understand what the scripture says...But sometimes we have to use the Greek to show you guys not only that you are wrong, but to prove Sola Scripture by posting the 'Greek'...
You say 'priest', one who sacrifices for the people...Scripture says 'minister', one who serves the people...
Your tradition is in disagreement with the scripture, again...We have to go with scripture alone, again...

Thanks cool man ... excellent post

[RnMomof7]

Catholics do not oppose Scripture. We simply do not accept that all of the revealed Word is contained within Scripture and therefore do not have to artificially inflate, conflate, stretch, misinterpret and distort their meanings in a vain attempt to make them accomplish what they were never intended to do.

What is the measurement that you use to distinguish false revelation from true revelation?

How do YOU know with CERTAINTY that the words or traditions of men are true and not from the deceiver? or do you care??

Jesus warned about this

Mat 24:11 — And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Peter worried about this

2Pe 2:1 — But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1Jo 4:1 — Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How do YOU test the spirits?

[RnMomof7]

Rev 5:6 — And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

And??