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To: Leoni; MarkBsnr
It is not a sin to divorce, I've made it quite clear the problem is remmariage while the original spouse or spouses are still alive!

Yes, that was a dilemma the Church dealt with from the beginning. nevertheless, both particular Churches had to find a way to deal with the reality of this world and to find ways to allow the innocent party to marry (again) if for no other reason than to prevent them from fornicating.

Thus, the Orthodox Church may grant second and possibly third marriages but that doesn't mean the previous spouse iss till alive. Third marriage for soeone who has twice divorced previously with previous spouses still living is unheard of. Three mariages ieven if the perosn in question is widowed twice before. Any remarriage goes with the understanding of the risks and sin involved and extensive consleing, but the dirving force behind the desire to grant someone seocnd amrriage is out of concern ofr his soul, so that the innocent party desiring to amrry agian would not falal in to deeper sin by fornicating.

Now you may consider their second marriage fornication, but I think theChurch owuld rtaher have that than the individual running around.

That's why it is an act of mercy, an act of apostolic economy, and why the second marriage ceremony is more like a funeral than marriage. The alternative is for the Church to simply abandon her flock and not care if they fornicate. In doing so, the Church would betray her own mission.

Perhaps you don't care what happens to people who are weak and broken, but the Church does. Perhaps you live a sinless life, but most people don't. They need guidance and they need spiritual help. If they are going to give in to their natural needs, the least the Church can do is try to prevent them from fornicating.

The real straw man you mention is your insistence that this praxis of the Orthodox Church is some kind of "dogma." The Eastern Chrch never taugh such a "dogma." No one takes pleasure or sees anything other than a lesser evil in a subsequent marriages.

The Catholic Church took on a more legalistic approach (not surprisingly) and stipulates that marriage in the eyes of God never took place. The Orthodox Church actually takes the same position, recognizing that what is known to God is not always known to man.

A priest cannot know if a confession is true and when he grants absolution in Gods' name he cannot possibly know if that absolution is valid or not. He goes on faith that what he heard is true, but there is not way for him to know for certain. But God would know and God would not absolve lies. Thus mnaybe you can fool the Churhc but not God. A marriage that was going to fail was know to God before it took place and was never blessed by God.

Thus, only God knows which sacrament is efficacious. The Church only does her part and leaves the rest to God. Remarriage is granted out of mercy to the innocent party, and out of mercy only, and God is implored to forgive if possible.

In granting an annulment the CC essentially states that the marriage never took place and provides avenue for the innocent party to have an efficacious sacramental marriage and not fornicate.

The number of annulments granted is a Catholic matter and I can't comment on that, but you seem to be in open revolt with the Vatican. The fact that fewer annulments were granted prior to 1970 doesn't mean that marriages were sin-free or that fornication outside of marriage did not exist.

The question is what is better for the health of the soul, being stuck in a loveless marriage and fornicate or separate and marry someone you love? We all make mistakes. Those who do understand. Do you?

280 posted on 06/10/2010 6:58:00 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: kosta50
There is no point in continuing the discussion with you since you only post your opinions, since you have yet to sight one traditional or scriptural source for the Orthodox allowing it's members to marry 3 times in the Orthodox Church while their first two spouses are still alive. That was my simple question. The Orthodox have been doing that, according to you, since like the beginning of the Greek Orthodox separation from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church had granted like 35-50 annulments WORLDWIDE per year in the 1930's to 1950's, those numbers are in line with the history/tradition of the Catholic Church.

An annulment is not a divorce. An annulment was granted for marriages that never took, because the sacrament had no efficacy because for example:

- A person was forced to marry. - One of the parties had already been married in the Church before, and had hidden the information - One of the parties did not want to have children - the marriage was never consummated

In other words the sacrament had no efficacy because the parties basically married under false pretenses (or it was never consummated). That is why there were only 35-50 per year Worldwide.

The post Vatican II 50,000-90,000 annulments in just the USA (USA despite having only 5% of the worldwide population of Catholics, grants 80% of the worldwide annulments)is an aberration in history, like the Arian heresy it will be corrected in time. It is not the normal operating procedure of the first 1960 years of the Catholic Church. On the other hand, the Orthodox three marriages is their normal operating procedure from day one.

287 posted on 06/11/2010 6:59:37 AM PDT by Leoni
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