The facts and reality are no one has presented an alien for public view and research....none. Saying that there is a government conspiracy to cover it up is like all other conspiracies...until it is revealed and the evidence shown, not that there is a cover up but find and expose that very evidence that aliens are here...then every thing is purely speculation not facts...no matter which side of the issue one is on.
Everyone has their own experiences in life...separately and as a whole. Just because one experiences something does not mean it is real or true....as mentioned before ‘John Nash” had no doubt what he saw was real. His book is telling. But it was not real at all. We cannot dismiss the ability of the mind to manufacture what it perceives as real from actual reality....especially when one wants it to be real.
Their are some who could indeed put science up against the Bible and prove it in error..and have done so...example is if you note God never attempts to prove that He is in the scripture....it is assumed one believes that He is....the closest he does come is with Job when He points to creation.....and even in that it is written we know the world was created by him THRU FAITH.....science has studied creation and come away many times amazed at the order, the dimensions, the detail....and many see a designer as the only option....others do not.
I think there is room for both science and religion and they can be quite complimentary at times and surely does challenge one. Both give a broad view so people can come to their own conclusions of a matter.
#147 was very reasonanble and very thoughtfully expressed. It is sort of what I’ve been trying to say. I’m a bit of a recluse, and I don’t communicate as nicely and evenly as you. Good job.
I understand what you are saying Star.....and but should not be excluded from the equation either....but considered and looked at carefully. You cannot simply dismiss science because it does not play into ones “belief system”.
Oh...., well, please don't misunderstand me ... :-). I actually love science. I think it's great and wonderful for what it's meant for. It has given us a lot of very useful things in our society and world, and it does a marvelous job for the area that it is intended.
I mean, I think our tall buildings are wonderful, the bridges work well, our airplanes actually fly, we went to the moon, we have a space station orbiting the earth, we're able to cure a lot of diseases we have, we can assist our bodies in being healthy and fixing things that do happen to go wrong with them. I like driving in the car that I have, which science made possible. The list can almost be endless, if we were to list all the accomplishments of science.
For all those things in which we can use science as a good and useful and viable tool, I think it's absolutely wonderful.
The problem we find that we run into -- is that science has worked so well in the areas it was meant for -- that many people have extended "science" into areas of knowledge where it has no ability to discern anything at all. That's their mistake in understanding what science is and is not. And thus, many people, today, have made "science" their "new god" of this age. In that manner, science (for those kinds of people) is another of a long list of false gods that we have in this culture and society.
Science can only develop for mankind a "subset of knowledge" -- of which it is only a very, very tiny and miniscule part of the knowledge of God, Himself. And then, furthermore, science has a total inability (by the nature of "what it is" to penetrate (or understand, comprehend or talk about) some of the "revealed knowledge" contained in the Word of God.
In other words, the Word of God, does "extend the very tiny subset of knowledge" from the realm of true science. The Word of God adds knowledge -- to science -- for which science can never address, never discover, never measure, never comprehend and never say anything about -- because of the very nature of what science is, itself. The Word of God contains knowledge that extends "far beyond science" and science has no ability to comprehend it. Only by the "revealed knowledge" of the written Word of God, are we able to even be aware of it.
So..., science is the ever-so limited, "little cousin" to the full and more expansive Word of God, you see.
Thus, I never dismiss what science "is" -- but I totally and thoroughly dismiss what science "is not" -- and cannot do. People should not make the mistake of taking science past its so-limited abilities -- in relation to who God is and what He has revealed.
And I'll also say that one will never find true science having any contradication with the Word of God, ever. If you find where anyone has shown "science" to be in contradiction of the Bible, when you examine it, you will usually find that they are no longer talking about "science" and instead, they have elevated something that they have referred to as "science" -- into a "false god" and taken it into areas where it has nothing to say. They have concocted things which they "call science" but have actually, instead, done no more than "suppress the truth of God" as is known by all, and set up their own "false gods".
The facts and reality are no one has presented an alien for public view and research....none.
This is also the reason that those engaged in the practice of "false science" have used -- as a "convincing explanation" [to many] that the Bible is wrong -- because "no one has presented an angel for public view and research....none." :-)
Their are some who could indeed put science up against the Bible and prove it in error..and have done so...
They actually haven't done so, because those things in the Bible, in which some use science to prove "it is wrong" -- have actually used science in an area where it has no ability to address anything.
For instance, "science" has no ability to address the creation event (as revealed to us in Genesis) -- as the very laws of physics did not even exist prior to that event. And so God obviously put the entirety of creation into place, by His creative actions using the power that He has, without using any of the laws of physics, because He brought everything into place prior to the laws of physics existing.
And it's even questionable as to when our present laws of physics went "into play". We can see that God put some physical laws in place at the time of the Garden of Eden which are no longer operational. Those laws of physics were changed as a result of the judgment of God at the fall of mankind.
Then it's also questionable as to whether the present laws of physics were "in place" at the time of the judgment of God and the world-wide Flood. It appears to be a completely different environment and situation before the Flood, compared to after. There is a rainbow which is mentioned as being there after the flood, which with our present law of physics, results from the refraction of light through water droplets. Either that wasn't in play then, or else, there wasn't rain droplets before the worldwide flood. Whichever the case, things were dramatically different in the "before and after" picture.
Science can't speak to many of those things, because they are completely outside the framework of science, and it has no ability to speak to any of that.
And, in addition, see that science keeps "shifting" its "understanding" of things with certain things that it can address, because it seems to always "get it wrong", or it's still trying to "get it right" ... :-)
For instance, for a long time, we were told that the speed of light was a constant. But, now..., there are indications that the speed of light may have been declining over the centuries and over a few millennia, and it was much faster in the past. This would dramatically alter some of the "timelines" that so-called "science" gives to the age of various things. This is getting into an area of "quasi-science" and not true science and is thus on the borderline of science and not science.
We have an eye-witness account of these historical events (like the creation event, in which God is the eye-witness account), and science itself cannot address these historical events that happen once. You don't have "creation events" in which God brings into existence, the very laws of physics, which never existed before and have probably been altered from then, to now. There's no way science can say a single thing about that. It's out of its realm.
I think there is room for both science and religion and they can be quite complimentary at times and surely does challenge one. Both give a broad view so people can come to their own conclusions of a matter.
I would never say that there is no room for science and God -- since God is the one who created the very laws of physics and the very nature and fabric of the universe. As long as one realizes that science is a subset of the knowledge of God, then people will have the proper understanding of science.
And, it's obvious that God has altered the laws of physics, and He is going to do it again, several more times in the future. God will alter things, once again, in the Millennium, during the reign of the Messiah of Israel. And then, God will alter the laws of physics, once again, at the Great White Throne Judgement. And then, God will alter the laws of physics, once again, at the time of the new heavens and the new earth, when all things are restored... once again.
So, we're going to see the continued altering of the laws of physcis, by God, as He is continually active in this creation of His.