[Mad Dawg]

Acts 15:28
For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us ...

That is a terrifying claim to authority on the part of sinful men.

I bet a number of Judaizers responded:
*We’re the true church because we say that God told us we are* doesn’t cut it with people who can read and think for themselves.

... you expect us to believe that the Roman Catholic Church managed to do so through a series of corrupt churches [or popes] in its darkest period of Church history for hundreds of years?

You expect us to believe that the Holy Spirit went on vacation for 1,400 years, give or take, and then finally found a way to mount a successful rupture in the Church?

It seems to me our story is no more improbable than yours.

And I would be careful about "in its darkest period of Church history". One of the reasons it's dark is that people aren't taught about it. Another is that it's complicated. The political chaos was astonishing.

Take a look at this (which I put together for my chapter to put the life of Dominic and of a man called John of Vercelli in some historical context):

Brief and inaccurate reckoning of Invasions of Northern Italy ( from skimming the EXCELLENT and inexpensive Penguin Atlas of Medieval History.)

• 410 Alaric of the Visigoths sacks Rome.
• 451 Attila invades Italy and is bought off. (dies in 452.)
• ca 476 Odoacer (Germanic, born in the Danube region) is King of Italy. Vandals hold Sardinia, Corsica, and part of Sicily.
• 493 Theoderic the Ostrogoth (trashes the pitiful remnant of the "Western Roman Empire" in Dalmatia (more or less) and takes sovereignty over an enlarged Kingdom of Italy, including all of Sicily and much of the coast of Modern France.
• 528 Italy is Arian territory. Ireland, parts of England Much of France and the "Eastern Empire" are Catholic.
• 563 The Eastern Emperor Justinian conquers Italy
• ca 600 Lombards come from NW and hold NE Italy, and the central Duchies of Spoleto and Beneveto. The Empire still holds the rest.
• ca 650 Lombards hold more, the empire holds less. (Islam is rapidly expanding.)
• ca 737 Papal States; Lombards and the 2 Duchies hold nearly all the rest of Italy. Naples & Amalfi in the SE and Venice/Ravenna in the NW are independent cities. (Charles Martel keeps Islam out of France.)
• ca 750 Papal States are threatened by the Lombards (who take Ravenna from Venice). The Pope appeals to the Franks. The Papal States are enlarged to make a band across central Italy.
• 774 Charlemagne annexes Lombards and Duchy of Spoleto. (Benevenuto becomes a principality.)
• period from 843 to 888 When Charlemagne dies His Empire is divided. There are combinations and divisions, one last gasp and then the larger Kingdoms of France, German and Italy (except for the southern third) AND the smaller kingdoms of Provence (south central France) and of Burgundy (central France precipitate out of the mess.
• 951
• 961 The German Kingdom annexes the (northern) Italian Kingdom, all of which remains, (more or less) in the German Empire until ...
• Frederick I Barbarossa Frederick I Barbarossa -- elected King of Germany, 1152, crowned King of Italy in Pavia in 1154, and crowned Holy Roman Emperor by Pope Adrian IV in 1155.
• 1170 Our Holy Father Dominic is born
• 1221 Our Holy Father Dominic dies
• 1278 The lands of the Pope are recognized as an independent state NOT of the German Empire. This seemingly political move strengthens the foundation for the concept of religious independence from secular government.

[I just left "our Holy Father Dominic" in there to tweak you. I don't think Dominic was God and I'm pretty sure both he and God know that.]

This is just about the chaos in one small part of the world. Look at historical maps of the British Isles, for an even deeper appreciation of the chaos -- or of the region now called France.

When one imagines that every couple of generations for a very long time some new group was going to come raping and pillaging over the next hill, I think it's pretty darn amazing that Christians did as well as they did.

[Quix]

True.

Though I don’t know that THAT excuses a lot of fleshy sins . . . or any fleshy sins

any more than our ‘modern’ excuses do.

[metmom]

That is a terrifying claim to authority on the part of sinful men.

And yet the Catholic Church makes just that kind of claim for itself and its popes.

[Alamo-Girl]

When one imagines that every couple of generations for a very long time some new group was going to come raping and pillaging over the next hill, I think it's pretty darn amazing that Christians did as well as they did.

I don't think it is amazing. God will never leave us or forsake us. And He keeps all of His promises. Every. Single One.

Throughout Scriptures, His people suffered such things for their own sakes, i.e. a "wake up call."

And the cause in Scripture (e.g. Song of Moses) always comes back to failing to keep the One and Only Great Commandment, i.e. Matt 22 which I paraphrase as loving God surpassingly above all else.

They provoked him to jealousy with strange [gods], with abominations provoked they him to anger. - Deuteronomy 32:16

The last generation of Christians will love themselves above all else. Indeed, one of the recent generations is called the "me" generation.

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. - 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Every time I think about current events and this administration, I say...

Maranatha, Jesus!!!