Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]

Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

[MarkBsnr]

What has more authority than the Word of God contained within Scripture?

You wish to contain Jesus within Scripture? Jesus is the Word. The authority is God; He has bestowed authority on the Church that He spent three years establishing. For 10 points, where does God instruct anyone to write anything down in the NT? And what are His words?

[MarkBsnr]

If the magistrum is the definer of what scripture means they are the author of those poor hermeneutics

Magisterium, not magistrum. The Church is guilty of not instructing people on Scripture anywhere near well enough.

What a church failure when a nun can not understand the word of God..because it is that very word that leads to eternal life..the fact she can not understand it means she will never get to heaven

Does that mean that every child who dies goes to hell?

[MarkBsnr]

In the scriptures YOU HAVE LIFE a failure to understand them means you are dead

I see. So all children who die are in hell. All simpletons who die are in hell. Nice version of Christianity you have there. Ours, the original version, has the Beatitudes. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will have life forever. Those who are most humble will be the most rewarded. And vice versa.

[MarkBsnr]

Appreciate the lesson. In the meantime, you’ll be letting us know when Jesus sits in physical Jerusalem upon the physical throne of David for 1000 years, right?

[Mad Dawg]

Did you note how I got a couple of righteously angry posts when I tried to ask about the theology of people who aren’t cut out for theology?

[MarkBsnr]

Apparently, I’m responding to one of his minions now.

Really? Tell him I said hi.

[MarkBsnr]

I have no interest in rebuking any of your writings. Your website shows a failed Catholic kinda wandering along out there with a moderate form of mild Christianity. Your writings are based upon a firm misconception that came to fruition during the Reformation - that one may interpret Scripture as one chooses. We’ve seen churches come and churches go during 2 millennia of Christianity. The Reformation started with a bang and it’s finishing up with a whimper. Most churches of men do.

[MarkBsnr]

Did you note how I got a couple of righteously angry posts when I tried to ask about the theology of people who aren’t cut out for theology?

Most people aren't. Those heaping big bowls of YOPIOS can choke you when they have the sugar coating stripped off. The problem with YOPIOS is having to live with the outcome. Most people can't, so their beliefs change from day to day.

[stfassisi]

Ken-””They don’t disagree with me at all, they had no idea of what I would write or say! “”

They did because old heresies never die,they just pop up like 3 headed headed hydra’s through the ages-you knock down one head another one pops up with a different spin on the heresy

Ken-””Many of them were not really “humble” at all.””

Way to Ken,in judging the Saints.Vomit!

Ken-””one can test the spirit by which they speak and write to see if it is conformity with what the Holy Spirit inspired men who wrote the Gospels and Letters of the Bible””

The Holy Spirit is there in historical unity on Bible interpretations- not hundreds of different meanings-only one truth

Medley of Ken rambling on about himself-””Mike, a friend of mine, and I called the Archbishops office and set up an appointment...... Mike and I were well-prepared for the meeting. We presented a 30 page long document outlining the teachings we found to be unscriptural......I started a publication directed at informing Catholics of these false teaching......They seemed to be skeptical at first, but as the Scriptures were studied many changed their minds”

And you have the audacity to say the Saints lack humility?

After reading some of your website I can understand why The Bishop did not take you seriously.

You remind me of René Descartes

Here is something From Aquinas for you..

Arguments of those who wish to prove that the Human Soul perishes with the Body, with Replies to the same
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments//Maritain/etext/gc2_80.htm

I see no reason to continue on with you,it’s obvious to me your here to promote your books and teachings that mislead people

I pray for you to seek the truth!

[Ken4TA]

Arguments of those who wish to prove that the Human Soul perishes with the Body, with Replies to the same http://www2.nd.edu/Departments//Maritain/etext/gc2_80.htm

Not a one of the many things it argues addresses anything that is expressed in that article I gave a link for. In fact, I don't find anything in the above link from you that attempts to substantiate their argument from the scriptures. It's pure humanistic arguments based upon a vivid imagination. Sorry - try again! LOL

And you have the audacity to say the Saints lack humility?

What I said was in direct answer to your accusation: "What's to stop any nut from presenting a list to any Archbishop? It probably happens often from radicals who think they are some special modern prophet who usually misunderstands the scriptures.
Did you have an appointment,because it sounds like you just approached the Archbishop without asking?" That you didn't like the truth of it is very apparent - does the truth bother you?

I see no reason to continue on with you,it’s obvious to me your here to promote your books and teachings that mislead people

Actually, I think your reason is that you can't rebuke anything I say with some sound reasoning and biblical approval; at least that is the impression I get! So, if you no longer want to communicate with me, fine...it's no loss to me at all. Bye, and may God's spirit help you in your search for the real truth, if so be it that that is what you are here for.

[Ken4TA]

Yep! That's a good example; extreme, but good.

[Ken4TA]

We're tripping over the various meanings of the word hermeneutic.

That's why I asked you what your idea of "authoritive hermeneutics" were. What method of hermeneutics do you feel is the correct one to use?

I use the method of hermeneutics that has been approved by almost all translators, regardless of whether it is the translation of ancient secular writings or of religious works such as the Bible and other works by religious writers.

So, in order to understand you, I need to know what standard of hermeneutics you seem to want. If you could supply such, I would seriously consider them and compare them with what the great majority of translators have approved.

Earnestly awaiting your method....

[Ken4TA]

I have no interest in rebuking any of your writings.

I figured you might say something like that :-) - however, I have the idea you may not be able to rebuke anything I've said with any sort of reasoned intelligence backed up with biblical teachings.

Your website shows a failed Catholic kinda wandering along out there with a moderate form of mild Christianity.

That's your opinion. However, the thousands that have visited my site are of a different opinion, and have stated a desire to learn more - asking reasonable and intelligent questions; many are Catholics (CINO or not).

Your writings are based upon a firm misconception that came to fruition during the Reformation

My start in writing articles were done without addressing anything the reformers said or done. In fact, it was a long while after I started that I investigated the reformers; my attention was with what the partisans of the RCC had to say.

The Reformation started with a bang and it’s finishing up with a whimper. Most churches of men do.

I've never ever thought of starting a "church". And never will! As for the reformation, well, they did call attention to the false teachings of the RCC, which they can be commended for. As for what they accomplished, well, that's a mixed bag to say the least.

[count-your-change]

Just trying to stay away from hermanomiditics,...hermanskinetics.......
Words I can’t pronounce or spell.

[MarkBsnr]

I figured you might say something like that :-) - however, I have the idea you may not be able to rebuke anything I've said with any sort of reasoned intelligence backed up with biblical teachings.

Put something up on a thread and let's see what happens.

That's your opinion. However, the thousands that have visited my site are of a different opinion, and have stated a desire to learn more - asking reasonable and intelligent questions; many are Catholics (CINO or not).

Don't flatter yourself. Any website will get thousands of hits per year especially if if the right keywords are put into Google's database.

My start in writing articles were done without addressing anything the reformers said or done. In fact, it was a long while after I started that I investigated the reformers; my attention was with what the partisans of the RCC had to say.

In other words, you started from the position of the Reformation. Would you say that you are more or less on the same road?

I've never ever thought of starting a "church". And never will!

Any encouragement of deviation from the Church of Jesus the Christ has the same net effect.

[Forest Keeper]

I see. So it's not quite as definite or binding as the Catechism. In the instance where a female pastor would be hired, what would the SBC do?

Nothing official, but such is strongly discouraged. This is from the FAQ section at the SBC site:

(9) ... Southern Baptists have long valued the priceless contribution of women as they have ministered to advance God's Kingdom. The Baptist Faith and Message (BF&M) affirms the vital role of women serving in the church. Yet it recognizes the biblical restriction concerning the office of pastor, saying: "While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture." The passages that restrict the office of pastor to men do not negate the essential equality of men and women before God, but rather focus on the assignment of roles.

The Southern Baptist Convention also passed a resolution in the early 1980s recognizing that offices requiring ordination are restricted to men. However the BF&M and resolutions are not binding upon local churches. Each church is responsible to prayerfully search the Scriptures and establish its own policy.

And according to this 10 year old article, SBC and Women Pastors, Comprehensive Report Does Not Sustain Inflated Statistics , "Fewer than one-tenth of one percent of the 41,099 Southern Baptist churches have a woman serving as senior pastor, according to a study by Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Messengers to this year's [2000's] convention in Orlando revised the denomination's statement of beliefs to specify a conviction that the office of pastor is to be held by a male. In reality, that is the practice of 99.92 percent of the local congregations."

The gist of the article seemed to be that there are a few here and there, but most of them just leave and join liberal Baptist organizations like the American Baptist Convention, which apparently approves of women serving as pastors. So, the SBC sticks to the non-binding rule, but I'm sure it is clear to these women pastors that they are not approved of by almost everyone else there (at the National Convention), so who needs the headache? Most just skip the Convention or leave the SBC. If at some point it ever became a growing movement, which it apparently is not right now, then I'm sure it would be further addressed in some way. Someone could bring in the ole' "friendly cooperation" clause, but that doesn't seem to be necessary at this time.

[stfassisi]

Actually, I think your reason is that you can't rebuke anything I say with some sound reasoning and biblical approval;

For one I have been too busy these days.Secondly,it's your idea of Biblical approval I reject.Some of your teachings have been rejected throughout Christian History.

Like Mark Bsnr said..."Put something up on a thread and let's see what happens." I know a few people to invite in as well

[Mad Dawg]

[Ich:] We're tripping over the various meanings of the word hermeneutic.

[Du:] That's why I asked you what your idea of "authoritive hermeneutics" were. What method of hermeneutics do you feel is the correct one to use?

More and more I see the aversion to "philosophy". I don't understand it but I see it.

Your question concerning a "method of hermeneutics" prompted my observation that there are various meanings to the term. That is different from saying there are different hermeneutical methods. So repeating the question doesn't even approach the issue.

Nonetheless,let me take a crack at it:

I suppose I am using the term in a very broad way, to mean interpreting the Scriptures to the end that they inform our thought and guide our lives. And as for "method" I guess I would say the interpretation should be done in communion with the Church and in dialogue with members of the Church.

As I think of the term, hermeneutics is more about bringing the meaning of the text and of the message conveyed through the text into our current situation. For a clergyman, a major sort of hermeneutical activity would be the final stages of sermon prep.

"Exegesis" in my usage (which I do not propose as normative, I'm just trying to be clear) would be the task whose tools would be translation, all the various "geschichten", 'comparing and contrasting' with other Biblical texts and so forth.

And somewhere in the process there needs to be something like "Lectio Divina" or some prayerful contemplation of the text under study. When I was in the game, my sermon prep started with what I called "blitzing" the texts: checking the Hebrew and Greek if I had any questions, rooting around among the commentaries and scholars, etc.

Then I would pray with the Scriptures and beg God for something to say to His people.

Then I would start the process of applying all that I'd garnered to "real life." And then I would organize the sermon.

So if I had a "scheme" it would be

1. Exegesis -- mostly consulting the exegetes
2. Lectio Divina(of a sort)
3. Hermeneutics (which might involve excursions into theologians, poets, whatever)
4. Homiletics (compose that puppy!)
5. Preaching (or teaching)

[Forest Keeper]

But when we speak of the Queen of Heaven, you all pretend that we are blurring her with Astarte and Parvati and who knows what all.

Rules is rules is rules.

[Ken4TA]

Just trying to stay away from hermanomiditics,...hermanskinetics....... Words I can’t pronounce or spell.

I understand. Not everyone realizes that hermeneutics is the method, along with exegesis, 1st Century Dictionaries and Lexicons, early writings of the period, etc., which are a part of the method that have produced the versions of the Bibles one sees. Any preacher worth his time will use hermeneutics to prepare his sermon or classes for teaching. Without it translators would not be able to translate from one language to another. It takes time and diligence, plus a real interest to arrive at the meaning inherent in the work to give a true rendering of what was written in various languages into the readers language. So, yes, I can see your "staying away from hermeneutics"! That sure doesn't stop individual and groups from doing the job for you, in fact, those like you should be thankful for such people dedicated to explain the meaning of what is translated.