Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix
Neither do I care about them. My response was simply to your question of Who are you?. No offense meant, nor taken. :o)
That has been documented to be and has been hereon even persistently demonstrated to be . . .
an overwhelming percentage of the time
evidently quite a minority of the
HELD AND PRACTICED BELIEFS, RITUALS AND BEHAVIORS.
Even some of the official and quai-official stuff from the Vatican and related officials conflicts starkly with the Catechism.
I'm sure we've heard the rationalizations around those facts ad nauseum, too.
Seems to me that YOU'RE insisting that your experience is normative. Does that make you immature as well?
If one doesn't experience any different, it's not unreasonable to conclude that it is normal until it's demonstrated that it's not normal.
Demanding that people think their experiences encompassing such a broad number of people over such a significant length of time is not normal is not careless thought. It's perfect reasonable and not unexpected, especially when it can be backed up with RCC teachings and statements from popes and other *church fathers*.
You're coming across as blameshifting. Making it my fault that I didn't presume any different about Catholicism when the experience and teaching I've had my entire life didn't give me any reason to. Why should I go and presume it wasn't true when I had no reason to think otherwise? And why is it immature?
And when did you stop beating YOUR wife?
I would be very interested to find some official document which said, in so many words, "Now that we have Mary, we don't need Jesus. Mary is mankind's personal savior and has been granted all the roles of Christ."
Despite metmom's insistence that my experience of the Church is meaningless while hers is defining, I still will say I don't know of a single Catholic who thinks that.
I think some non-Catholics use the Catholic Church as an ink-blot. The hint that it is a pathological process is the amazing anger and name-calling which arises when we deny some preposterous thing of which we are accused. Some people need a group so that they can tell themselves that at least they aren't as bad or misled as those awful so-and-sos.
As must have been said on Fr at least a dozen times before, in Ineffabilis Deus it says:
the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin,Now some think it a virtue tobe unimaginative and to have a limited understanding of "being saved." These say, "Well, if she didn't sin, what's to be saved from?"
If somebody were to be, ahem, saved from falling over the edge of the Grand Canyon by a railing of some kind, WE would say they had been saved. Evidently our opponents think that saving only happens AFTER you're in trouble.
Okay. But that's not OUR problem.
OF COURSE she isn't. She's a human being — though evidently a specially consecrated human being — consecrated from the Beginning....
It really does take a consecrated mother to be fit to bear the Son of God.
But I know to the depth of my being that only Jesus Christ — her Son — can save me.
So, WHAT'S YOUR BEEF??"?
And that’s just at the formal, official, encyclical, dogmatic etc. levels.
When it comes to individual pastors and congregations—and of course individuals . . .
the varieties are multiplied many times over, as we have seen on FR’s RF.
Your use of that term is offensive to me, FWIW.
It’s just a stupid game. I decline to play.
INDEED.
Am often driven by my own flaws to the same or a similar sentiment, distress.
PRAISE GOD FOR CHRIST’S PRICELESS BLOOD AND LOVE.
NO! NO! NO!
SUCH BALLS and their bounces
are designed ONLY to land in other folks’ teacups at the most inopportune times in the most inopportune ways from the most obstreporous attitudes.
That’s the nature of those games.
the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin,
Where is that, in the bible?
Folks who are addicted to twisting other folks’ noses may have one or more compulsions that make it difficult to let much of anything go.
Prayer can often be the only remotely helpful response.
INDEED.
Most foreigners are relatively safe DEPENDING . . .
but those they assoicate with, are not.
Particularly if the foreigner angers the wrong power monger.
No beef, just want to know why, some, all, or part, of Catholics ascribe to Mary all of the roles that biblically, are assigned to Christ
It should be offensive in light of biblical revelation.
I rebuke that allegation in the Name of Jesus, most fiercely.
I’ve found Roamer to be quite filled with Holy Spirit and to minister great wisdom, comfort, edification, redemptive attitude and perspective as well as a great deal of common sense suggestions that can be most helpful in ministry and work.
And he has persistently done so quite Biblically.
From my perspective, he loathes satan enormously more than a number of rabid clique idolators and blasphemers do.
But this sort of feels more like wordplay since God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. It has been instructive, however, to see that overall the Bible says to pray to the Father. I'm going to keep looking for the exception, just because. 8~)
But reading Romans 8 brought me to these verses again and they again knock my socks off as to their beauty, teaching, discernment and security...
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." -- Romans 8:5-15"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
And these are the verses which the papacy all but ignores. Here Paul tells us the Holy Spirit literally indwells believers and that it is the righteousness of Christ, via the Holy Spirit, which is counted as our own.
All this Mariology displays the carnal mind of Rome, concentrating on the creature when clearly the Creator alone deserves our veneration, worship, prayers, devotion, time and every thought.
Some folks seem to be bucking for elevation to a Jr-Jr goddess level or status.
Trouble is, I think they haven’t realized that when they are in a deep hole, they need to
STOP DIGGING!
LOL.
Of course not.
You know the obfuscation is merely a cold prickly to play absurd games with Prottys over.
INDEED!
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