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To: MarkBsnr
God's Spirit illuminating his truth of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Odd. That's what the Church teaches.

Yes, I agree, but...only lip service is paid to the "by grace through faith" part. This religion also adds man's good works, his obedience to the rituals of The Church, his own suffering payment for the "temporal" punishment due his sins in a mythical place called "Purgatory" and all other requirements necessarily imagined and demanded by whatever the hierarchy decides God has revealed to them outside of His words of scripture. Thus, one cannot - and, by design, shouldn't - have a real assurance of salvation since, up until the moment of death, no "t" cannot be crossed nor "i" not dotted. One is left to only "hope" he did it all right. This, to me, completely misses the entire meaning of the word GRACE and wholly discounts the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us on the cross.

Romans 4:4-6

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

That is why "gospel" means "GOOD NEWS"!!!

1,836 posted on 04/25/2010 9:43:05 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums

” This, to me, completely misses the entire meaning of the word GRACE...”

Then you are in a tiny minority. Most of Christendom recognized and still does the truth taught for 20 centuries by the Catholic Church.


1,848 posted on 04/25/2010 9:55:29 PM PDT by narses (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: boatbums
Yes, I agree, but...only lip service is paid to the "by grace through faith" part.

The Faith concentrates on grace being the gift of God to us, not on the idea of earning grace through faith.

This religion also adds man's good works, his obedience to the rituals of The Church, his own suffering payment for the "temporal" punishment due his sins in a mythical place called "Purgatory" and all other requirements necessarily imagined and demanded by whatever the hierarchy decides God has revealed to them outside of His words of scripture.

The verses that I posted recently of Judgement of man's works are the words of Jesus (and a few of Paul and John). they are not extra Scriptural. They have the force of command. Let me ask you what your understanding of Purgatory is, before I can debate with you about it.

One is left to only "hope" he did it all right. This, to me, completely misses the entire meaning of the word GRACE and wholly discounts the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us on the cross.

The verses you post do not have the certainty that your post indicates that they do.

Romans 8: 22 We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now; 23 and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with endurance.

Hope. Faith, hope, love. We do our best to imitate Christ; as Paul imitates Christ. And then we must trust in the Lord.

1,888 posted on 04/26/2010 9:02:13 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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