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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
I have been most strongly instructed by some of your current allies here, as well as by the Reformed that I have dealt with in personal life, that the Gospels are the chronicles of Christ, while Paul is the theology of Christianity. I did a study of the WCF some years back and discovered that there were virtually no primary Gospel proofs of any of the WCF theology. It was predominantly Pauline, and secondarily OT. Read it yourself, with proofs. I believe that Reformed.com has a reasonably good online version. Read the Confession and then read the proofs for each chapter. You may come to the same conclusions that I did.
I forgive you.
:)
I am just a little ashamed. It was so easy, and the gentleman was being even more pompous than usual.
I’ll say an extra Hail Mary just to make it up to him...
pssssst..... You’ve got a direct line to God. Take it to the top.
Certainly. That is the intent of penitential prayer. And I will ask the communion of saints to pray for me as well to Almighty God. We'll all get on the line together, as good Christians do. We are a community of believers and those who are in Christ.
I am not a monastic, never have felt called to monasticism, and it has no attraction for me. The community of believers waited for me to wander in my youth, and accepted me back into the fellowship of Jesus Christ. A prodigal son, as it were.
WCF?
Did you see the link I posted earlier in the thread about the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism?
Reformed theology is not entirely representative of most Evangelical theology.
If you want to go after the Reformed over it, have at it, but it doesn’t necessarily apply to the rest of Christianity.
I would agree that Paul’s epistles are where a great deal of theology comes from, but all of it? I’m not so sure.
It is correct now, but the fact remains that the great Confessions of the Reformation were generally Calvinist, some emphatically so. There were three camps - Calvinist, Lutheran, and mystical (Zwingli / Anabaptist / etc.).
If you want to go after the Reformed over it, have at it, but it doesn’t necessarily apply to the rest of Christianity.
The overwhelming majority of American religious at the Revolutionary War were Calvinist. The Anglicans / Episcopals were Calvinist. The Congregationalists were Calvinist. The Presbyterians were Calvinist. The Puritans were Calvinist. The only non Calvinists in America at the time were the Quakers, the various Baptist groups, and the Catholics.
I would agree that Paul’s epistles are where a great deal of theology comes from, but all of it? I’m not so sure.
Some groups are pretty sure.
Quix, I have years of experience caring for child victims of sexual abuse, from ages 2-17.
Discussing them would violate them. But that experience was an excellent teacher. I quit when the time was right, and I couldn’t take it anymore. These children are very very needy.
I’m not angry at anyone. The law was involved. I know what I am talking about. All y’all can try to fit your particular doctrine of forgiveness over these heinous crimes, and prattle about what the matter with ME is, but I’m telling you, until you have worked with them to the extent I have, you have NO IDEA.
Of all these childrens’ needs, forgiveness comes last. First: Safety. Second: Reassurance. Third: Normal routine. Fourth: Respect for their boundaries. Fifth: reliable, consistent close contact with a person they can bond with. Sixth: high tolerance for acting out.
When the children get some distance, and some perspective, they can start to heal and THEN maybe forgive.
None of the children were abused by strangers. All were trusted figures. None of the abusers had any money, and threats were made to enforce silence upon their victims.
So, there is no need to wonder about my psychological state, I’m fine. I know what I’m talking about, and it’s clear here that some don’t.
“We are, therefore, prohibited from trying to contact her or anyone else who has died.”
When has this ever been taught in orthodox Trinitarian Christianity? The Apostles Creed clearly argues for the Communion of Saints. Further, Orthodox Christianity believes that Mary and the Saints in Heaven ARE ALIVE in Christ. You do not? Why?
Most Christians are either Catholic or Orthodox. We have been for 2,000 years. What sect or denomination teaches the beliefs you espouse?
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.”
Indeed, that is exactly what the Church teaches, odd that you oppose the Will of God.
Statistics?
Where in the NT have we ever been told to communicate with someone who has died to us?
Where in the NT did anyone tell us that the prohibition against contacting the dead was rescinded.
Another Quix Quote to add to the list of the "Whew...God is so good!" file. Thank you.
The saints are not dead.
The problem with the churches of men is that they simply select the verse that appeals, then develop theology that suits it, then revise the selection of verses to better suit the theology, then revise the theology...
The splitters and the quitters do not make Christian theology; they only make their own, now rapidly devolving churches of men.
“splitters and quitters” — Outstanding!
You deny the Communion of Saints?
Try the CIA Factbook. Do your own research. It might open your eyes.
It is a surrender to God's justice, mercy and grace and it is the only way to true freedom from bitterness and defeat that unforgiveness brings us. God commands us to forgive because he knows our deepest need is to know that somehow He forgives us too for all our sins. It is only through this way that the peace of God that passed all understanding can guard our hearts and minds.
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