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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
To borrow your words from post #1998, "How do you OPC's Catholics see a person's heart? Only God can do that."
As we have discussed,
you know that we differ markedly on this point.
Scripture has no qualification about the perpetrator confessing, repenting or even being sorry.
Scripture is starkly all inclusive on the need for
ALL CHRISTIANS—ALL ANYONE—TO FORGIVE
IF
THEY WANT FORGIVEN.
It’s a choice . . . with eternal consequences.
I do confess that I find it slightly amusing to find you and Judith Anne on the same side on a spiritual issue.
With the Papist Bigots giving us so much opportunity, I’m sure they are.
I would also expect the child to forgive, eventually.
Forgiveness has to be genuine and cannot be turned on and off like a switch. But at some point, as the person can deal with it, it must be given.
Sometimes it needs to be worked through.
Part of the act of forgiving is being aware that the sinner is truly repentant and that “Go and sin no more” is his intent.I think in the case of an individual forgiving a trespass by another doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the heart of the one who committed the wrongdoing.I do not recall reading any qualifier from Christ Jesus on who we are to forgive. What if someone abuses and child and is not sorry, but says he is? What if that someone is a Catholic priest, and he is truly repentant?
It is the heart of the forgiver that is healed by forgiving the perpetrator.
An individual forgiving another does not absolve the wrongdoer or clense him/her as forgivness from God does.
I believe God forgives when the sinner realizes his sin and repents and asks God for forgivness.
If we (even a child) do not forgive, we have the tendancy to become bitter and...well...unforgiving.
As has been stated, a child needs to be taught the reason and necessity of forgiveness while at the same time being told that only God's forgivness can wash away the sin.
WE CAN PRAY
Lord, I’m willing.
I’m certainly willing to be made willing.
Give me your heart, Lord, Jesus.
Give me your forgiveness, Lord, Jesus.
It is, like much spiritual growth, a dance, a walk with God . . . a grace and a skill and a choice . . .
HE IS THE POSITIVE GRACIOUS ENABLER WHEN WE ARE UNABLE.
We must be willing. We must at least ask Him to make us willing—NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES. ETERNITY IS AT STAKE.
ABSOLUTELY!
AND VERY WONDERFULLY PUT.
THX.
THX BIG.
Looking for additions to that pathetic file? Help yourself.
. . . NOW back to the pottery studio to put kiln wash on some more shelves.
Have fun kiddies.
I would also expect the child to forgive, eventually.
Forgiveness has to be genuine and cannot be turned on and off like a switch. But at some point, as the person can deal with it, it must be given.
Sometimes it needs to be worked through.
But it is not optional. Jesus is clear about that.
Our nature is to want to see people pay for the wrong they've done to us. I think that the reason people don't want to forgive is that they don't want to see the person getting away with something. It doesn't seem fair or right to us that someone should commit such a travesty and get away with it with no consequences.
Forgiving them simply means that we won't hold the wrong they did against us against them. We want them to acknowledge that what they did as wrong and when they don't, it hurts even worse and makes it harder to forgive. In no way does it diminish the wrong they did, even though sometimes it seems that way.
It is easier to forgive when someone acknowledges their wrongs and asks forgiveness, but even if they don't, we are still obligated to forgive.
Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.
I have no problem applying that to adults. But making a CHILD adhere to that, when the child can’t even process what has happened?
Sick
That chip you carry around in your growing gunny sack is getting rather heavy, eh? [HINT: it makes you bitter and it shows in your posts and irrational persepctive.]
At what age do you demand that children forgive abusers?
You tell me, when should they forgive the priests, the pope and the Catholic church, before or after the money settlements?
I'm irrational? I don't think children should be forced to forgive abusers, and I'm irrational? I think they're too young to understand what has been done to them, and they should be sheltered, protected, and kept away from the felons, and I'm irrational?
I’ve already given my opinion on that.
Thank you for putting that more clearly than I.
I think that this is a stumbling block to forgiveness for so many. It's almost the feeling like if we forgive, that means that we admit that what the other person did wasn't wrong after all. It's especially hard when the other person never repented and is just merrily going on their way, prospering and continuing to commit the same sin as if nothing happened and they're not wrong.
It's something I've struggled with in forgiving people.
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