Nifonging the Catholic Church

me ^ | April 18, 2010 | vanity

[Judith Anne]

I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.

Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.

I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!

Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!

Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!

What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?

Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?

Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!

[MarkBsnr]

To: Judith Anne

She was not prettier than me.

1,772 posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:12:48 PM by Dr. Eckleburg To: Dr. Eckleburg

"She was not prettier than me."

LOL - She was and still is!

1,777 posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:39:44 PM by Natural Law

To: Dr. Eckleburg

She was not prettier than me.

says, "You've gotta be kidding, right?"

1,789 posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 10:07:26 PM by MarkBsnr

To: MarkBsnr

No.

1,813 posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 11:21:05 PM by Dr. Eckleburg

I'm not sure that I believe you.

[Natural Law]

"BEARING FALSE WITNESS from the DOUBLE STANDARD, DOUBLE-SPEAK departments of the Vatican Institution."

Now you have to ask yourself which of your sins is the greater; bearing false witness against Catholics and the Catholics Church or coveting the numbers, prestige, history and spiritual fidelity of the Catholic Church. I believe it is the coveting, which I have often referred to as Crosier Envy, because it has caused you to bear false witness.

Now go and sin no more.

[Natural Law]

"So, an elder cannot be accused of child sexual abuse without multiple witnesses?"

That is the same standard applied to both rape and molestations accusations under Sharia Law. Coincidence? I think not.

[Judith Anne]

So, child sexual abuse would not be an immediate police problem? There would still be two witnesses required?

[MarkBsnr]

I believe that OPC has a few dozen ‘churches’ scattered hither and yon. The size of the congregation varies from little to few. I googled up Orthodox Presbyterian in Bing some time ago, and it initially came up with ‘insufficient data’, then when prodded, it went to the little used section of its memory banks and dusted off some old records.

[Quix]

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

I had to apply that . . . not even to Christians in a Christian relationship or congregation—well, not mostly.

But at the univ.

Someone had evidently complained because I mentioned political things in the adjunct faculty office—and supposedly in pottery in intolerable ways or degrees.

Thankfully, they were chagrinned on checking to find out the accusations were grossly overblown or outright false.

However, I went speedily to the most likely suspects and did what I could to clear the relationship and at least to notify thereby that I routinely go to the sources in an effort to clear the relationships.

THAT is what I believe Christ requires of me, regardless of a LOT of other contingensies, issues and facts.

Besides, one sleeps better following THE MANUAL.

Thanks for the excellent Scriptures and observations, comments.

[Quix]

CONGRATS!
FOR
WINNING

the
POSTING
FARCE!
ON
TOP
OF
FARCE!
award for the day!

ROTFLOL

BTW, I'd think the stinky dofu would smell less than those farcical posts.

[MarkBsnr]

Yes, I agree, but...only lip service is paid to the "by grace through faith" part.

The Faith concentrates on grace being the gift of God to us, not on the idea of earning grace through faith.

This religion also adds man's good works, his obedience to the rituals of The Church, his own suffering payment for the "temporal" punishment due his sins in a mythical place called "Purgatory" and all other requirements necessarily imagined and demanded by whatever the hierarchy decides God has revealed to them outside of His words of scripture.

The verses that I posted recently of Judgement of man's works are the words of Jesus (and a few of Paul and John). they are not extra Scriptural. They have the force of command. Let me ask you what your understanding of Purgatory is, before I can debate with you about it.

One is left to only "hope" he did it all right. This, to me, completely misses the entire meaning of the word GRACE and wholly discounts the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us on the cross.

The verses you post do not have the certainty that your post indicates that they do.

Romans 8: 22 We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now; 23 and not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, we also groan within ourselves as we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with endurance.

Hope. Faith, hope, love. We do our best to imitate Christ; as Paul imitates Christ. And then we must trust in the Lord.

[Judith Anne]

What about other presbyterians? the PCUSA for example, do they demand two witnesses before a charge of child sexual abuse can be reported to the police?

There are a number of presbyterian groups, the OPC is supposed to be the most conservative and scripturally correct, iirc.

[MarkBsnr]

DR.E: Paul corrected Peter often. It was never the other way around.

MARK BSNR: How often? How many times? Speak up, we are waiting with bated breath.

I wouldn't want your breath batted too long, Mark. So here's one instance...

So 'often' means 'once' in the OPC vernacular? We Catholics use the term 'once' to mean 'once'. No wonder you guys have such problems with Scripture; you don't know the meaning of English words, much less the Latin and Greek ones.

[Alamo-Girl]

So, child sexual abuse would not be an immediate police problem? There would still be two witnesses required?

Common sense applies.

If the child needs medical attention, of course 911 should be called or the ER visited and the police will be involved of necessity and probably a child protective service.

Otherwise, the first step for the Christian parent (as guardian for the child) - or the child himself - is to confront the offender privately according to the will of God.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - Matthew 18:15-17

And if the offender will not repent, then it is the will of God to bring two or three witnesses. And if he still will not repent, present the entire case before the assembly and boot the offender out.

In a matter as serious as child molestation, I perceive "hearing" to mean that the offender would repent "in dust and ashes" which is to say, turn himself in to all authorities: civil, criminal and church and seek help.

[metmom]

That’s some of the grossest misapplication of Scriptural to support a non-Scripture doctrine that I have ever seen.

There is NOTHING in the Bible that refers to types of Mary, like there is for types of Christ.

Mary did NOT have to be sinless to bear Christ. If she had to be sinless to bear a sinless redeemer, then her parents had to have been sinless to bear her, and so on back and that didn’t happen.

The God who could have made her sinless although born of sinful parents would have had no trouble making Jesus sinless although He was born of a sinful mother.

[MarkBsnr]

Amen. As the Bible teaches those with ears to hear.

And the lord of this world supplies many with ears to hear and eyes to see. Which accounts for the kaleidoscope doctrines of many of the children of the Reformed.

[Alamo-Girl]

Besides, one sleeps better following THE MANUAL.

SO very true!

Thank you for sharing your testimony and insights, dear brother in Christ!

[MarkBsnr]

I don't know what the Athenasian Creed is

It is exclusive to Christianity and is one of the three great Creeds of Christian belief.

[MarkBsnr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you still believe in evolution, don't you???

Define what you mean by evolution.

[Judith Anne]

Is that what Catholics should do, too? Have the child confront the offender, or the child’s parents, FIRST?

Is that what all this is about? Because Eckleburg was posting that problems like Catholics had would NEVER occur in the presbyterian church, because the police are immediately called and the crime was not covered up.

Sounds to me like this procedure might well enable a lot of crime to be covered up. Seriously!

[metmom]

Most of Christendom recognized and still does the truth taught for 20 centuries by the Catholic Church.

MOST Christendom?

Seems to me that only Roman Catholics recognized as truth all the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Does the Roman Catholic church comprise most of Christendom? And how do you know?

[metmom]

Mary herself rejoiced and trusted in "God my Savior.". She is a sister in the family of God and not its mother.

If Mary had been perfect and sinless, she would have not needed a savior. Her very own recognition of that in her song proves her sinful humanity, just like ours.

[metmom]

Where did I say that? I’m sure that when Mary prayed, God heard her as well.

And if she prays in heaven, He will hear her there, too.

The prohibition against us contacting the dead has never been rescinded. Mary died on this earth, just like everyone but Elijah and Enoch. We are, therefore, prohibited from trying to contact her or anyone else who has died.