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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
WELL PUT.
THX.
The Father is the origin of all blessings we receive in Christ (1:3) including election (1:4) and predestination (1:5). The Son is the one in whom we have redemption (1:7) and he will head up all things (1:10). The Holy Spirit is the one who sealed us when we believe (1:13) and guarantees our inheritance (1:14).
Knowledge of the Father is through his Son by the Holy Spirit (1:17). The Son secured access to the Father through the Cross and this access is accomplished by the Spirit (2:18). We experience knowledge of the Father in reverse order, by the Spirit through the Son to the Father (3:5).
He tells the Church to be filled with the Spirit (5:18) so they might sing psalms to the Son (5:19) and give thanks for everything to the Father (5:20).
Christians are told to take up the armor of God which includes the one offensive weapon, the Spirit, which is the Word of God (6:17).
Paul describes the Church in trinitarian terms with Christ as the cornerstone and a dwelling place of the Father by the Spirit (2:20-22).
The capstone is when Paul describes the unity of the Trinity as the one Lord (Son), one Spirit, and one God and Father of all (4:4-6)
Amen! Every word worth repeating. THAT is Christianity!
Because that’s not the case. A translation of a translation is error waiting to happen to begin with.
Adding tradition to Scripture and elevating it to the level of Scripture is a disaster waiting to happen.
And the history of the Catholic church confirms that.
Jesus is the head of his church, not Peter.
What kind of man would the pope be to lock someone out of heaven simply because that person didn’t want to belong to his organization?
The Catholic Church is not the only true church. The true church is the body of Christ composed of all true believers of all time, regardless of denominational affiliation.
Salvation is through Christ, not any church or any leader of a church.
lolol.
>>I have NEVER heard any denominational bickering from either side.<<
Neither did I until I came to the religion forum of FR.
My Dad’s family was Methodist and Presbyterian.
My Mom’s 100% Catholic including one son who became a Bishop.
I married a Presbyterian who’s family is Evangelical and Charismatic. One is an atheist.
My adopted sister is Baptist. We are like “all God’s children” and we never tiff about religion.
Then again, Catholics don’t think that you have to be Catholic to make it to heaven, so we don’t have as much invested in converting you for your salvation.
So, you’re more than welcome at my house for coffee and a day of history curriculum borrowed from the library! LOL
We are saved by free, unearned mercy and not debt.
No sweat.
I can be given to some pretty sweeping generalizations.
However, I do try earnestly to avoid 100% generalizations.
Thanks for your kind reply.
I do tend to think of you as a Dear Sister in Christ, BTW.
And you!
Jesus is the head of his church, not Peter.
Apparently.
The Catholic Church is not the only true church. The true church is the body of Christ composed of all true believers of all time, regardless of denominational affiliation.
Scripture most explicitly tells us that Jesus Created the Church and the Holy Spirit commissioned it at Pentecost. You wish to tell Jesus about your post at your Judgement? Go ahead with any man made church. I will go with the Scriptural understanding of the Church.
Thanks
It’s always soooooo kind of you to register a solid hit on the bull’s eye.
lol. You disproved nothing. Your examples all concerned religious tolerance, as anyone who can read can plainly see.
They say nothing about forms of government, which was and still remains, the question.
Oh, Bull!
Nice. Now we finally see how RCs really debate. And on Sunday.
Repent.
Coy.
Some lessons in Christianity:
2 Corinthians 5: 10 For we must all appear 7 before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.
Romans 14: 10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." 12 So (then) each of us shall give an account of himself (to God).
Revelation 20: 11 9 Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. 12 I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. 10 The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. 13 The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades 11 gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds.
Romans 2: 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works: 3 7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, 8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. 9 Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. 11 4 There is no partiality with God.
Matthew 25: 41 17 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' 44 18 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?' 45 He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 24: 45 26 27 "Who, then, is the faithful and prudent servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household to distribute to them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master on his arrival finds doing so. 47 Amen, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property. 48 28 But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is long delayed,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with drunkards, 50 the servant's master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour 51 and will punish him severely 29 and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.
Matthew 20: 32 His master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. 33 Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?' 34 Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. 23 35 24 So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart."
Matthew 19: 24 19 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21 26 What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? 27 22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
This is Bible belief. This is Christianity. Unless you believe this, you are not Christ oriented. You are non Christian.
Repent of your errors of men and follow Christ. Follow Paul - the true interpretation of Paul and not the Reformed mangled interpretation.
My required paper at the end of the Freudian term in my PhD progarm was titled:
FRODO AND DR FRUD.
The prof was initially not amused. Did end up giving me a top grade on re-reading it, however.
Again, although I am not familiar with the theological positions of the Catholics I know here, that is NOT true for the entire area in which I grew up.
It's what I was taught and I believed for a long time. There was some mental adjustment necessary in being able to even walk INTO a non-Catholic church.
I was taught that it was a sin to even go INTO a Protestant church and when the girl scout group I was with met in a local Baptist or whatever church (can't recall the denomination) I was assured that since it wasn't in the sanctuary and that it wasn't for religious purposes but I was in their community room, I was OK, but that I should leave as soon as it was over.
I distinctly recall also, that the Roman Catholics didn't consider that the Ukrainian Catholics were going to heaven because they weren't Roman Catholic. It was quite a sore spot for the Ukrainian side of the family; really raised their hackles.
I responded to your post #1463 seven comments after you asked it in post #1470.
Read much?
BUZZ! Mind-reading. Stop breaking the rules.
Google has no record of it. Pity. Is there any of your works in the public record?
I don’t want to press anything that is not my business but around what year were you taught this? (I was in grade school in the 60s and 70s)
Vatican II made it very clear.
All I have to say is that I’m very glad that this Pope is pushing the proper education for all Catholics.
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