Posted on 04/08/2010 2:47:10 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
The Saints are not dead.
Hi Iscool. How's the Holy LaZBoy throne in the Church of Iscool (population one) these days?
Let us see what the Church Fathers said long before Scripture was chosen, and much of it before some of Scripture was written:
from http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/07/church-fathers-on-sinlessness-of-mary.html
St. Athanasius : . . . pure and unstained Virgin . . . (On the Incarnation of the Word, 8; Gambero, 102) O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides. (Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71, 216; Gambero, 106)
St. Ephraem: Mary and Eve, two people without guilt, two simple people, were identical. Later, however, one became the cause of our death, the other the cause of our life (Op. syr. II, 327; Ott, 201) The Virgin Mary is a symbol of the Church, when she receives the first announcement of the gospel . . . We call the Church by the name of Mary, for she deserves a double name. (Sermo ad noct. Resurr.; Gambero, 115) Thou and thy mother are the only ones who are totally beautiful in every respect; for in thee, O Lord, there is no spot, and in thy Mother no stain. (Nisibene Hymns, 27, v. 8; Ott, 201)
Citing this source, J.N.D. Kelly asserts: [W]e find Ephraem delineating her as free from every stain, like her son. (Kelly, 495)
St. Cyril of Jerusalem: Pure and spotless is this birth. For where the Holy Spirit breathes, all pollution is taken away, so that the human birth of the Only-begotten from the Virgin is undefiled. (Catechetical Lectures, XII, 31-32; Gambero, 140)
St. Gregory Nazianzen He was conceived by the Virgin, who had first been purified by the Spirit in soul and body; for, as it was fitting that childbearing should receive its share of honor, so it was necessary that virginity should receive even greater honor. (Sermon 38, 13; Gambero, 162-163)
St. Gregory of Nyssa It was, to divulge by the manner of His Incarnation this great secret; that purity is the only complete indication of the presence of God and of His coming, and that no one can in reality secure this for himself, unless he has altogether estranged himself from the passions of the flesh. What happened in the stainless Mary when the fulness of the Godhead which was in Christ shone out through her, that happens in every soul that leads by rule the virgin life. (On Virginity, 2; NPNF 2, Vol. V, 344) [T]he power of the Most High, through the Holy Spirit, overshadowed the human nature and was formed therein; that is to say, the portion of flesh was formed in the immaculate Virgin. (Against Apollinaris, 6; Gambero, 153)
St. Ambrose . . . Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin. (Commentary on Psalm 118, 22, 30; Jurgens, II, 166) What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? (Virginity, II, 6; NPNF 2, Vol. X, 374)
St. Epiphanius Mary, the holy Virgin, is truly great before God and men. For how shall we not proclaim her great, who held within her the uncontainable One, whom neither heaven nor earth can contain? (Panarion, 30, 31; Gambero, 127)
St. Jerome 'There shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a flower shall grow out of his roots.' The rod is the mother of the Lord--simple, pure, unsullied; drawing no germ of life from without but fruitful in singleness like God Himself... Set before you the blessed Mary, whose surpassing purity made her meet to be the mother of the Lord. (Letter XXII. To Eustochium, 19, 38; NPNF 2, Vol. VI, 29, 39; cf. Gambero, p. 213: “whose purity was so great that she merited to be the Mother of the Lord”) Indeed how inferior they are, in terms of holiness, to blessed Mary, Mother of the Lord! (Contra Pelagianos, 1, 16; Gambero, 212)
St. Augustine We must except the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.
It should go without saying, but people who promote abortion or homosexuality are not Christian.
So all those people who He preached to and they didn't get it were all 7 and younger? The Apostles spent most of their time less than 8 years old? The Eunuch of Acts was less than 8?
You guys that think that you can interpret Scripture for yourself in violation of Scripture itself get really amusing at times. What do you have next for us?
What about people who jettison the entire book of Matthew? What about people who say that since man can never be as perfect as the Father, then man shouldn't bother to follow any of the commands of Jesus? What about people who attempt their own interpretation of Scripture and come up with their own doctrines and beliefs? What about those who reject the Church Fathers and the canon of Scripture declared by the Church?
Said seemingly from the best
!!!!TRADITIONS!!!!
and attitudes of the RELIGIOUS RULERS
2000 years ago.
INDEED.
AMEN! AMEN!
INDEED! AMEN! AMEN!
THX.
I may have been confused by your cryptic comments and refs.
If you care to bother outlining what you believe those verses are telling Believers, I’ll be happy to consider them again.
Your religious tradition didn’t show up till after the scripture was penned and taught...Hundreds of years after the scripture was penned...So you got it completely wrong...
Your man-made religious tradition must be understood in conjunction with the written word...And if your tradition doesn’t fit scripture, dump the tradition...
You can make stuff up that you want to believe the scripture says, but that doesn’t change what the scripture really says...The scripture does not say nor imply Mary was sinless...
#######
INDEED.
THX.
Yes, Mr.”nomodem hasn’t created an about page. “
HA!
“Back your position with the Holy Scripture. You can’t. I know. I was once like you.”
Um, NO. First, you were never like me. You don’t know me.
” All I posted was Scripture verses pertaining to Mary.”
Second, I spent my entire life as a Pentecostal Protestant thank you very much. Then I opened an actual history book written by (protestant) historians, and realized I had nothing in common with the actual reformers. They would have burned me AND you at the stake for declaring what you just wrote about Mary.
“If you were aligned with god you would Amen this post…”
Third, that is pure, and unadulterated hubris. Don’t post lines like that again to anyone as is completely undermines your position by reeking of prelest.
Psst... (you forgot to capitalize God)
Sophistry raises it's ugly head...
Scripture was chosen the second it was written...And all of it long before any of your church fathers showed up...
If your church fathers do not line up with the written words of God, you can take them out right along with the trash...
The ruins of the Reformation and the rubble of the Restoration are crowded with them. Scripture is clear; the Church is clear. Those who reject the Church also reject the Creator of the Church. You don't get to make it all up as you go along.
No sophistry here. Just the teachings of Jesus, thank you kindly.
Which version? I can almost guarantee that none of original versions of the eventually chosen Scripture were included. We have proof that there were hundreds of versions of each book. And which book? Where is the Didache? It was accepted as Scripture right away. What about both books of Peter? Were they written by Peter? When were they written? Who really wrote them? What about Hebrews? Come on now, speak up. Who wrote the version of Scripture that actually showed up in the NT and when were they written? I'd like a list, please, if you would be so kind.
If your church fathers do not line up with the written words of God, you can take them out right along with the trash...
The written words of God were dictated to Moses - called the Torah, IIRC. That's all. So, all the rest of the OT and entire NT are excluded from the Church of Iscool (population one)? I will not be attending services there anytime soon. I'll be in the dumpster outside of your church with the rest of Scripture (I'll supply my own Torah) which is what the Church has determined for Christianity.
Sha- zam.... why all the rage...? why not try to convince me...? Why the bitter sarcasm and grammatical typo cherry picking? It speaks volumes... God’s Word must have hit a nerve with you..
I fully agree.. that is for sure.. they surly would have burned us... it is what they did to those who sought only to exalt God’s Word and not fables. Hus ect…
If you are a Catholic…. “then” I know how you think as a “Catholic’... since I was one.. that is what I was talking about.. All I presented was God’s Word… that is why I stated that.. “you would Amen this post” What part of the Scripture do you disagree with?
I agree I have not much in common with the reformers also... I follow more of Whitfield, Cary, Mc Gee etc.
FRiend, read the gospel of John for your self and put aside all of your opinions and read it objectively and see if you come up with the same reasoning as you have been taught. That was not an insult. God kept it simple for humanity knowing that we would always try to interject ourselves into it.
The Apostles were... Ignorant fishermen (Act’s 4:12-14) and the elites of that day distained them because they could pistol whip any of the “intelligences” of the day in matters of the Scriptures. Why do you think Saul (Paul) hate the first church and murdered many of them.. The Holy Spirit in them is the Power not they of themselves.
It is there for all who truly want to know…. even for an 8 year old. Trust God to help you interpret the Scriptures for your self... Then you will be free indeed (John 8:32,36)!
Take the challenge and see for your self..
http://www.theignorantfishermen.com/2009/04/take-gospel-of-john-challenge.html
wow..sorry my Friend that you feel that way.. I hate to say it but.. I believe that of your position also... only one of us can be acursed?
Mary was great human given a Devine Heavenly calling as none other has as Scripture teaches but you have made her into something that is contrary to Scripture and to her. Let go of your traditions and believe God’s Word. That is God’s command not mine..
“She plays a huge role in God’s plan for salvation”
This line you stated is insane and demonic!!!
Stop trying to work your way into God’s holy presence and trust Christ alone for your deliverance from your trespasses against His perfect Law. (Matt 7:21-23, Act 4;12,13, Romans 3:23,5:1, 10:2-4, Eph 2:8,9)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.