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To: NYer; All

The only difficulty I have is with your statement regarding infants and young children. Having been a Sunday school teacher, I can tell you, at a certain age, most children can CHOOSE to follow Jesus.

However, there is NO SCRIPTURE to support the theory that child “baptism” means - the child is born again. Baptism is an outword symbol of an inward change in the heart. Once a person chooses to follow Jesus, Baptism is just a way to outwardly show the commitment to your decision.

To be born again, it takes a CHOICE OF YOUR FREE WILL. While God gave to man the ability to choose, that “choice making” can only be done when you understand right and wrong. A baby cannot do that.

As for whether or not Catholics can be born again .. I don’t see why people are even questioning that. The point I’m making is that God does not see whether you’re Catholic or Methodist or Baptist or otherwise; God see you as HIS (through Jesus), or not HIS (because you have not chosen to follow Jesus).

Being born again has nothing whatsoever to do with what denomination you belong to, or what church you attend. Being born again is accomplished by CHOOSING Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Romans 10:9-10 gives us the model to follow:

“9) ... If you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him [Jesus] from the dead, you will be saved.

10) For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [this] salvation. Amp.

If you continue reading verses 11-17, you come to this scripture:

17) So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

A lot of Bible translations say, “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God”. But if you move the comma from the first “hearing” to the second “hearing” - you wind up with the true statement: “Faith comes by hearing and hearing, by the Word of God”. Meaning that just hearing a scripture once is not enough. To keep your faith in Jesus alive, you need to be hearing and hearing the Word of God.

If people are confused about this, it usually means that it’s not being taught at the church where they attend. That’s very sad.

Remember this important thing: The most important gift God gave to man (humans) was the ability to CHOOSE. It’s one of the most important gifts, because it allows you to choose to follow Jesus and to serve God.


111 posted on 03/13/2010 6:46:39 PM PST by CyberAnt (HEALTHCARE IS NOT A "RIGHT"!!)
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To: CyberAnt

It also means they are not praying or reading the Word for themselves. One shouldn’t depend upon any one else to spoon feed them, but, rather to seek out the scriptures as did the Bereans, to determine if those things being taught are scriptural.


113 posted on 03/13/2010 6:59:04 PM PST by Catsrus
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To: CyberAnt

Excellent post!


117 posted on 03/13/2010 7:16:15 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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To: CyberAnt

I take issue with what you say here...and I am not RCC:

“Baptism is an outword symbol of an inward change in the heart. Once a person chooses to follow Jesus, Baptism is just a way to outwardly show the commitment to your decision.”

It means far more than an outward show that one has made a decision for Christ. Believing the gospel and making a decision for Christ is essential, but Baptism is not some sort of an attached addendum to the gospel. It is part of it - the meaning of which is actually becoming one with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.

If you care to follow me on this, I can provide the scriptures that support identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection as an essential part of salvation.


119 posted on 03/13/2010 7:25:08 PM PST by sasportas
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To: CyberAnt
However, there is NO SCRIPTURE to support the theory that child “baptism” means - the child is born again.

Where in Scripture does it say that baptism is to be restricted to adults?

Baptism is an outword symbol of an inward change in the heart. Once a person chooses to follow Jesus, Baptism is just a way to outwardly show the commitment to your decision.

Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Furthermore, Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands." Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

147 posted on 03/14/2010 5:49:41 AM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
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