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To: Judith Anne

If Christ would tell us to leave others alone, then He would NOT have given the command to go ye into the world and preach the gospel, would he? However, there is a delicate balance, and that being one must be led by the Holy Spirit to those who are ready to accept Jesus as their personal savior. It isn’t by baptism, ritual or other sacraments that one becomes born again, or from above. IT is the Spirit of God who convicts of sin and leads one to a personal knowledge and acceptance of what JEsus did on the Cross.

Being baptized does not save anyone. It is an outward evidence of an inward work. WE are immersed (baptised) into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. There isn’t any evidence in the Bible that those who accepted Christ were sprinkled. They were dunked under the water. Nor, is there any evidence that babies were sprinkled.

If people would pray and seek the Lord in spiritual matters, they wouldn’t accept heresies and false doctrines. But, alas, many, and that includes many Protestant churches would rather fall on their traditional swords than accept the truth. By the way, Jesus said, “I Am the way, the TRUTH, and the Life, no one comes to the Father but by me.” So, if anyone is trying to get to heaven by any other means than accepting Jesus’s work on Calvary, they are laboring in vain.


108 posted on 03/13/2010 6:33:22 PM PST by Catsrus
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To: Catsrus

Preliminary statement: Faith in Christ saves, period. However, that said, faith is given by purely by grace. Baptism leads us to faith, that is its purpose. It is God’s work. But faith, if it is true, God-given brings forth the fruits of faith. That, in a nutshell, is scriptural teaching.

Catsrus wrote:

“Being baptized does not save anyone.”

1 Peter 3:21 says otherwise.

Also:

“It is an outward evidence of an inward work.”

Where does the Bible say that?

Also:

“WE are immersed (baptised) into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. There isn’t any evidence in the Bible that those who accepted Christ were sprinkled. They were dunked under the water.”

The matter is nowhere near as cut and dried as you imagine. We can get into it if you really want to. In so saying, I will readily admit that the preference was from the beginning for immersion, because of the symbolism of Romans 6. But the early church never insisted on immersion or else it was no baptism, and this because they knew (knowing Greek usage a little better than we) the boundaries of the meaning of “baptizo,” to baptize (or, if you want to get really technical, “I baptize”).

Also:

“Nor, is there any evidence that babies were sprinkled.” I am assuming here that you are seeking to invalidate infant baptism. And so reply, that too is not true. I could cite the fact that the Book of Acts refers to the baptism of whole households, in which were probably children, in the case of Cornelius and of the Philippian jailor. Similarly, it is reported that “Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan” (Matthew 3:5) came to John to be baptized. That is pretty inclusive language. In observing this, it should also be noted that Israel was quite used to bringing 8-day-olds to be circumcised. But better than that is that in the Great Commission the apostles are commanded to make disciples of all the nations. That being the plain and universal command, the burden of proof falls on him who insists that “all the nations” doesn’t mean children also. Before you you take off with various presumed proof texts (of which there are none conclusive), consider that the identical phrase “all the nations” is used by the very same author, Matthew, for those who will stand before Christ on the Day of Judgment. (Matthew 25:32) Does all the nations there mean, “all, except children”? Scripture interprets Scripture. Matthew is the best commentary on Matthew.

Better than simply putting forth standard denominational talking points is to examine carefully the language of the Holy Scriptures, and let it decide what is true and what is not.


118 posted on 03/13/2010 7:17:02 PM PST by Belteshazzar
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To: Catsrus

In regards to baptism and salvation, Scripture does refer to our initial salvation as being identified with a full immersion or complete washing or baptism.

Our Lord was baptized and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him.

When our Lord spoke to Nicodemus, as recorded in John, it was made clear that even to a believer who was steeped in tradition, unless he was born again he would not inherit the Kingdom of God. Being born again involved a birth by water and birth by baptism of the Holy Spirit. This baptism by the Holy Spirit is a full washing of all past sin at the moment of salvation.

Later we are washed or cleansed of sin by not a full immersion, but by a partial washing, similar to Simon Peter demanding our Lord not wash the feet of another, but when told that unless he was so washed he wouldn’t receive his inheritance, then asked our Lord to wash Him all over, but was then corrected again that a full washing wasn’t required, but simply a partial washing. This is identified with our returning to Him after placing any other thing prior to Him in our faith, missing the target of our faithful thinking, faith in Christ, so we turn back to Him, i.e. repent, not a tearful emotional feeling of guilt of our sinful actions, but simply turning our thinking back to Him through faith in the Cross,....and then confess our sins to Him, both known and unknown missing of His target for us, ...then we are again forgiven by Him and are back in fellowship with Him.

This last act, associated with 1st John 1:9, is a partial washing. Unless the believer, though, had at some time been thoroughly washed, i.e. baptized by the Holy Spirit, then he still was lacking being born again.

We also are commanded to be baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. When we do this, we are obeying His command and are manifesting our faith in Him by a simple work.


202 posted on 03/15/2010 4:37:54 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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