Paul spoke 'street' Greek and NOT Latin. What does this word mean in the language Paul spoke/wrote it given the subject is where are the dead as noted in IThessalonians 4:13.
He wasn't explaining what language Paul spoke... LOL ... he was explaining where the "term" came from... which was from the Latin Vulgate.
In the original it means "snatched up" and also "by force" ...
There's a "discussion" of this in a theological paper I was reading a while back, and it goes into this in pretty good detail in the original languages. I'll try to find it for you... :-)
Paul contradicts himself later then because in ICorinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Right there, when you assume that a "given writer" of Scripture contradicts himself... that's an immediate problem. Contradictions don't happen in the Word of God, since they are Scripture is all from God and the human writers are only God's tools to put forth His Word, in the Bible, for us to read. There are no contradictions with God. There are only misunderstandings that we personally have, that appear to be contradictions. Once we understand what God means, we find no contradiction.
See the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy on that topic (in its "affirmations" and "denials").
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the *last* (that would be the 7th) trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
That's a common assumption with some who read about that "last trump". However, from what I read from Jewish people some recognize that (from their Jewish perspective) as the last Trump on the Feast of Trumpets. In fact, the phrase about not knowing the day or hour is used for the Feast of Trumpets and any Jewish person (of that day) would have recognized that phrase in connection with the Feast of Trumpets.
So, the 7th trumpet of Revelation (which was penned by John) is not the "last trump" of Paul's writing (or of Jewish understanding).
In fact, if you count your understanding as #1, and then what I said as #2, there is also a #3 there, too... but I would have to get that one out and review it for a fuller explanation. I just remember that there is a third explanation for that last trump.
Christ's return is described as a thief in the night, now why would that be? Could it be because the majority believe He was already here and was not 'waiting' for His return... That would create a mighty embarrassing tribulation to have already attended a fake wedding.
It's described as returning as a thief on the night because there are no prophetic signs that the Bible gives as preceding the Rapture. But, there are prophetics signs that are given preceding Jesus, returning to earth as the Messiah of Israel to set up the Kingdom on this earth. In fact, one real easy "prophetic sign" for the time of Jesus' return to set up the kingdom is from the time that the Antichrist stops the sacrifices and declares himself to be God, in the Temple in Jerusalme, there is exactly 1,260 days to the return of Jesus to set up the Kingdom. There's no surprise or a "thief in the night" on that one... LOL... we know exactly when Jesus is returning once we see the Antichrist (whomeever sees it) -- it's exactly 1,260 days later.
But, the Rapture has no prophetic sign preceding it happening. That "is" like a thief in the night. But, we are to wait "expectantly" for that to happen at any time. That's what we are told, and for good reason.
See Post #26 for the Doctrine of Imminency... :-)
I found one of the articles I was looking for and I just have to format it now... so it will take a little bit... be right back... :-)
Paul spoke 'street' Greek and NOT Latin. What does this word mean in the language Paul spoke/wrote it given the subject is where are the dead as noted in IThessalonians 4:13.
He wasn't explaining what language Paul spoke... LOL ... he was explaining where the "term" came from... which was from the Latin Vulgate. In the original it means "snatched up" and also "by force" ... There's a "discussion" of this in a theological paper I was reading a while back, and it goes into this in pretty good detail in the original languages. I'll try to find it for you... :-)
Oh I will not disagree with what the author is attempting to explain. But he has one big problem, the subject is where are the dead. NOT what is going to happen to the 'church' or the spiritually speaking 'bride'. That is the point of my response to your post. The literal subject Paul was giving an instruction is ignored and a whole new doctrine is woven around a word that is not even relevant to the subject. Where are the dead?
Paul contradicts himself later then because in ICorinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Right there, when you assume that a "given writer" of Scripture contradicts himself... that's an immediate problem. Contradictions don't happen in the Word of God, since they are Scripture is all from God and the human writers are only God's tools to put forth His Word, in the Bible, for us to read. There are no contradictions with God. There are only misunderstandings that we personally have, that appear to be contradictions. Once we understand what God means, we find no contradiction. See the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy on that topic (in its "affirmations" and "denials").
I do not assume anything. What I said was 'Paul contradicts himself later then,...... because in ICorinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall *all* be changed,
I know Paul's words are not a contradiction, but they are made to contradict by the formation of another 'gospel', by making one word the focus point of doctrine that is totally and completely made up. God had Ezekiel pen way long before Paul's days what God thinks about flying to save souls. Ezekiel 13: The whole chapter, but in particular verses 18-23.
Lest anyone claim this is NOT meant for Christians, it was the same person Paul who tells us that ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: (examples) and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Now Paul would have to be like old bjClinton with the power of compartmentalization and forget what he penned in one place and penned something in complete opposition in another place. The subject of IThessalonians 4:17 is found in verse 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the *last* (that would be the 7th) trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
That's a common assumption with some who read about that "last trump". However, from what I read from Jewish people some recognize that (from their Jewish perspective) as the last Trump on the Feast of Trumpets. In fact, the phrase about not knowing the day or hour is used for the Feast of Trumpets and any Jewish person (of that day) would have recognized that phrase in connection with the Feast of Trumpets. So, the 7th trumpet of Revelation (which was penned by John) is not the "last trump" of Paul's writing (or of Jewish understanding). In fact, if you count your understanding as #1, and then what I said as #2, there is also a #3 there, too... but I would have to get that one out and review it for a fuller explanation. I just remember that there is a third explanation for that last trump.
Sounds like a shell game guess which trump is which. Why would the Heavenly Father have these He chose to pen His instruction be unclear in what a trump means? Most especially when a whole doctrine and bags are packed for a planned trip made up off the subject of where are the dead, using the 'latin' word as foundation. To say that Paul and John are talking about different trumps is calling the Heavenly Father confused.
And why does Paul tell us to prepare for battle in Ephesians 6 if nobody is going to be here to fight this battle.
Christ's return is described as a thief in the night, now why would that be? Could it be because the majority believe He was already here and was not 'waiting' for His return... That would create a mighty embarrassing tribulation to have already attended a fake wedding.
It's described as returning as a thief on the night because there are no prophetic signs that the Bible gives as preceding the Rapture. But, there are prophetics signs that are given preceding Jesus, returning to earth as the Messiah of Israel to set up the Kingdom on this earth. In fact, one real easy "prophetic sign" for the time of Jesus' return to set up the kingdom is from the time that the Antichrist stops the sacrifices and declares himself to be God, in the Temple in Jerusalme, there is exactly 1,260 days to the return of Jesus to set up the Kingdom. There's no surprise or a "thief in the night" on that one... LOL... we know exactly when Jesus is returning once we see the Antichrist (whomeever sees it) -- it's exactly 1,260 days later. But, the Rapture has no prophetic sign preceding it happening. That "is" like a thief in the night. But, we are to wait "expectantly" for that to happen at any time. That's what we are told, and for good reason.
I won't disagree that there are NO prophetic signs regarding the rapture. But not for the reasons stated. Why would the Heavenly Father who sent His only begotten Son, to be the perfect one and for all time sacrifice, be requiring blood sacrifices to ever take place again.
Your words describe two different Jesus with two different paths.