Posted on 02/28/2010 4:35:54 PM PST by ComeUpHigher
Francis Eugene George is not just a cardinal. He is also president of the United States conference of catholic bishops and sets the tone and direction for church policy and position in the country. His comments, therefore, on the positive attributes of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), more commonly known as Mormons, seem surprising given the enormous theological and demographic differences between the two groups. Or do his words herald a spirit of co-operation among disparate religious movements in the fight against secularism?
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
“Agreed, particularly when it applies to my belief that despite theological differences some posters could be civil.
For an ecumenical thread, the “attitude” in your posts seems
quite hostile to any discussion. I just don’t get it. The
spirit of ecumenicalism abandoned this temple already...
Thanks for the antecdotal proofs which I asked you not to provide. Again, do you have any documented proof of a formal policy by the LDS Church to use ecumenical activites to advance their missionary efforts? I expect not, but I await your response.
Why are you here? Are you celebrating the unity between the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church on advancing conservative social issues? If not, you might enjoy Greyfoxx39’s open thread on this subject.
Like lds inc is going to release that to the public - LOL. The facts are my ‘antecdotal’ evidences are still evidence
that you can’t refute.
Anyway, your current prophet is encouraging missionaries to proselyze for optimum productivity, appropriate when trying to exploit ‘ecumenical’ cooperation with prospective Catholic converts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kFBB3Am6eI&feature=related
My FRiend, your antecdotal “evidence” is only “evidence” in your mind because you want it to be so.
Well, time will tell as mormonism seeks to be reccognized as “christian” although it fought against that term for all but the last couple of decades of its existance.
“Why are you here? Are you celebrating the unity between
the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church on advancing
conservative social issues?”
No, absolutely not. I came to an ecumenic discussion thread
and observed (in the spirit of ecumenicalism) that it is
astounding that these two groups are working together for
the following reason:
They have different theological views on who God is and
they worship two different gods.
From there, your posts went, well, postal.
Really, take a deep breath and hummm a bit and hold hands
as we contemplate this amazing thing together. It is truly
amazing!
Ecumenics chill and are not antagonistic. Try it, you’ll
like it!
best,
ampu
LOL. My posts went “postal”? Obviously, you haven’t read the posts in the thread, my FRiend. The only posters going “postal” were part of your flying inman posse who had their posts removed for failing to comply with the ecumenical spirit of my thread. Like you, they just can’t bear the thought of the Mormon Church working with the Catholic Church to advance the conservative social agenda.
And the fact that you mischaracterize my posts only reflects poorly on your honesty. You’ve already posted that you are astounded the two groups are working together when they have different theological views. Do you have anything additional that is relevant and substantive to the thread to offer? If not, why are you here on an ecumenical thread? Don’t you think you should be looking for more fruitful fields to sow your discontent?
Really, friend, chill. This is an ecumenic thread, remember?
“My posts went “postal”?”
Just the ones to me.
“Obviously, you haven’t read the posts in the thread, my FRiend.”
No, I was having a discussion with you - not others. Please
don’t confuse me with others. I am responsible for my own
posts, as are you.
“Like you, they just can’t bear the thought of the Mormon Church working with the Catholic Church to advance the conservative social agenda.”
This seems to be a clear example of mind reading. You have
no idea what I am thinking beyond my exact words. When you
read into my posts other things, as you expressed here, you
ruin the spirit of ecuminism.
“And the fact that you mischaracterize my posts only reflects poorly on your honesty.”
This seems antagonistic toward me. This doesn’t seem like
proper behavior on an ecumenic thread.
“You’ve already posted that you are astounded the two groups are working together when they have different theological views.”
Yes, given their different gods, it seems astounding.
“Do you have anything additional that is relevant and substantive to the thread to offer?”
That is substantive. What could be more substantive than
the Creator???
“If not, why are you here on an ecumenical thread? Don’t you think you should be looking for more fruitful fields to sow your discontent?”
Have you redlined this thread somehow?
I am not discontent, and again, this would appear to be
mind reading on your part. I will let it go in the spirit
of ecumenical harmony.
Do you have anything substantive to post about Catholics
and Mormons believing in different gods and how amazing it
is that they overcame this to work together for the common
good?
If so, I’d like to hear it.
best,
ampu
“It clearly establishes that you don’t have anything additional which is relevant and substantive to add to the subject of the Catholic and Mormon Churches working together to advance the conservative social agenda.”
Oh, no. You are mistaken, CUH. I have lots more, but I
am giving you an opportunity to discuss the astounding part
of this - that Roman Catholics and Mormons are working together
DESPITE their vast theological differences! That is the truly
amazing part of the article.
Does that not seem amazing to you? If not, why?
“As a final aside, perhaps you should start your own ecumenical thread on the question you posit at the end of your post.”
Thank you for your suggestion! Perhaps I will, after this
thread passes along. It’s a good idea you have there.
“Best wishes in your continued ecumenical efforts.”
You to, CUH. I’m glad I could help put you on the correct
path of ecumenicism.
best,
ampu
As you know, this ecumenical thread was on the subject of the combined efforts of the Catholic and Mormon Churches to work together in furthering the conservative social agenda regarding families and abortion. Yet, you still keep trying to hijack it to a different subject unrelated to that of churches working together to advance the conservative social agenda. One last time, do you have anything additional which is relevant and substantive to add to this thread subject of the Mormon and Catholic Churches working together to advance the conservative social agenda? If so, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts.
If not, my polite suggestion remains for you to start your own ecumenical thread. Good luck and best wishes with your own thread.
“One last time, do you have anything additional which is relevant and substantive to add to this thread subject of the Mormon and Catholic Churches working together to advance the conservative social agenda?
“If so, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts.”
Thanks!
Here are my thoughts, CUH...
I am astounded these to very different groups are working
together to advance the conservative social agenda!
Why, you ask?
Simply because they are very, very different in their
beliefs. Without this substantial difference, the story
wouldn’t be astounding in any way, would it? It would
just be anther same old, same old story.
Now, we know this is unusual for the following reasons:
1. They haven’t done it in the past
2. Roman Catholics don’t recognize mormon baptism
3. Mormons don’t believe Catholics have the true gospel
These are just a handful of reasons why this ecumenical
story is astounding, in my own opinion... and worthy of
note.
Don’t you think these are some of the major reasons why
the story is unexpected?
Do you have other thoughts as to what makes the story
so very unexpected?
best,
ampu
Regrettably, I find nothing remarkable about your post. Your portrayal of the combined efforts of the Catholic and Mormon Churches to work together to advance the conservative social agenda as being unprecedented falls flat.
The Catholic and Mormon Churches have a long-standing history of working together on social issues. For example, see the linked article: http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_13028300
Therein, it reports a “long-standing friendship between the two churches.” In regards to advancing social issues, the article also reports: “Mormon contributions to Catholic humanitarian programs, from refugee resettlement and meals for the homeless to $11.2 million in aid to Catholic Charities’ international relief projects.”
Your post starts with a flawed fundamental premise regarding the existing ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches. Perhaps you should read more about the long-standing ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches before presumptiously concluding this latest combined effort between them on conservative social issues is unprecedented. If you would like, I’d be happy to provide you with additional reading material to help you understand the goodwill between these two faiths and their prior combined efforts on other social issues. Just let me know and I’ll gather some of it for you.
Best wishes on your own ecumenical thread. Why don’t you ping me when you post it, okay?
“Regrettably, I find nothing remarkable about your post.”
It’s entirely your right to ignore whatever you want.
“Your portrayal of the combined efforts of the Catholic
and Mormon Churches to work together to advance the
conservative social agenda as being unprecedented falls
flat.”
I’m not “portraying it” - I’m stating the obvious - these
two groups believe wildly differing things.
You might as well write, “fish and birds have reached an
agreement”. They live in two different worlds for a reason.
I’m observing it and discussing it in a patient, ecumenical
way.
“The Catholic and Mormon Churches have a long-standing
history of working together on social issues. For example,
see the linked article: http://www.sltrib.com
/lds/ci_13028300”
Is this a mormon publication, btw?
“Your post starts with a flawed fundamental premise
regarding the existing ecumenical relationship between
the Catholic and Mormon Churches.”
That sounds very antagonistic for posting on an ecumenical thread...
Perhaps you should read more about the long-standing
ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon
Churches before presumptiously concluding this latest
combined effort between them on conservative social issues
is unprecedented.”
I don’t believe I was presumptuous at all (as a Catholic).
You have some interesting observations, thank you.
Best,
ampu
I ignored nothing. Your post made no new claims, and therefore was unremarkable. You claimed the joint activities of the Catholic and Mormon Churches on social issues was unprecedented:
“1. They haven’t done it in the past”
I very accurately showed how your foregoing factual assertion was erroneous and was a flawed fundamental premise to your posting. I’m sorry if you consider informing a poster that a factual assertion he made was wrong is antagonistic. I just consider it advising the poster that he was wrong, as you were.
The Mormon and Catholic Churches have a long-standing relationship of ecumenicalism. I’m sorry being made aware of that fact bursts your bubble as a Catholic. Perhaps if you are upset with the long-standing ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches, you should express your angst to your ecclesiastical leaders.
For your edification since you appear to be either uninformed or ill-informed, the Salt Lake Tribune has no affiliation with the Mormon Church and has a long-standing history of antagonism in its articles dealing with the Mormon Church. Does that take away the angle that the article wasn’t trustworthy because it wasn’t written by a Mormon publication?
You’re probably right. You weren’t presumptuous. You were just uninformed. Now that you’ve been informed, are you okay with the Mormon Church giving millions of dollars to Catholic charities as part of its ecumenical relationship with the Catholic Church on social issues? Or do you consider it offensive that a “cult” would work jointly with the Catholic Church on social issues by donating millions to its charities?
By the way, when can I expect your ecumenical thread?
“The Mormon and Catholic Churches have a long-standing
relationship of ecumenicalism. I’m sorry being made aware
of that fact bursts your bubble as a Catholic. Perhaps if
you are upset with the long-standing ecumenical
relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches, you
should express your angst to your ecclesiastical leaders.”
It is your continued language like this on an ecumenical
thread that leads me to ask (gently)... is it that time
of the month, Come Up Higher? Is this a hormonal thing?
There must be something happening in your life presently
that keeps you from the spirit of ecumenicalism and fills
your posts with such antagonism.
If you didn’t want to have conversations with those who
differed while foregoing antagonism, why did you post
an Ecumenical thread?
I wish you the absolute best in your life and hope it is
nothing overly serious.
best,
ampu
You really don’t need to make personal attacks. I didn’t realize informing you that you were factually wrong about the long-standing relationship of ecumenicalism between the Catholic and Mormon Churches would result in your resorting to personal insults. The fact that such relationship has existed for a lengthy period of time seems to be a novel revelation to you and as your previous posts have indicated it was “astounding” given the difference in dogma between the respective faiths. It appears to be a source of angst for you that you might want to pursue with your ecclesiastical leaders. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry.
I didn’t receive a response from you to my inquiry about whether being informed about the long-standing ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches which involves significant financial contributions to Catholic charities on social issues was “unexpected” and “astounding?”. Having now been so informed, do you also consider that “unexpected” and “astounding” given the differences in dogma? If so, why?
I am hoping you want to join with your Catholic Church leadership in working with the Mormon Church on an ecumenical basis in advancing conservative social issues. Can I count on your support?
I will be looking for your ecumencial thread. Please ping me when you post. Best wishes.
“I didn’t receive a response from you to my inquiry about whether being informed about the long-standing ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches which involves significant financial contributions to Catholic charities on social issues was “unexpected” and “astounding?”. Having now been so informed, do you also consider that “unexpected” and “astounding” given the differences in dogma? If so, why?”
Thank you for asking. Yes, I sure do consider it astounding
that a Christian Church (in this case, Catholic) would be
working together with a modern American cult (in this case,
mormon).
My surprise is probably shared widely. Here is why...
1. Roman Catholics believe in ONE God who is triune in
nature. Mormons believe in potentially billions of gods.
2. Roman Catholics believe the Bible alone is the inspired
word of God. Mormons add all kinds of non-Biblical stuff.
3. RCs believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Mormons
believe in a jesus that is a created being that “became”
a god.
4. RCs are MonoTheistic - one God. Mormons are Henotheistic -
they claim to worship one of billions or trillions of gods.
In short, other than the name of Jesus Christ, they have
no beliefs in common with mormonism - and mormons mean a
different Jesus than RCs do.
So yes! It is quite astounding.
“I am hoping you want to join with your Catholic Church leadership in working with the Mormon Church on an ecumenical basis in advancing conservative social issues. Can I count on your support?”
Well... as far as taking money from the mormon group and
using it for good, sure. It would be better than whatever
the mormon group was going to do with it, so I’d take it
from them. Really, though, this would be better described
as RCs being supported by mormons.
Yes, in a way it makes it appear that mormonism is being
accepted as “christian” by the world’s largest Christian
group - but we both know this isn’t really about accepting
the teachings of mormonism, which the RC identifies at
best a heresy which it condemned already, or at worst, a
cult that preys on its members. And for those reasons,
I’d sure take the money.
“I will be looking for your ecumencial thread.”
I’ve decided that this thread is unloved and unused, so
I have adopted it as my own. Thank you.
Predictably, the only individuals who find the long-standing ecumenical relationship between the Catholic and Mormon Churches “astounding” and “unexpected” are those who are ill-informed and/or uninformed. I’ve known about the ecumenical relationship between the two for many years. In fact, in my community, the Mormon Church has closely worked with the Catholic Church on a variety of social issues for many years.
Fortunately, the leadership of the Catholic Church isn’t narrow-minded and bigoted like some of its parishioners who incessantly seek to divide people of different faiths who have shared values and work together with the Catholic Church in advancing important social issues. Instead, many of these narrow-minded parishoners would rather waste their time making self-perceived pithy, but, in reality, ignorant statements attacking another faith. I truly pity the spiritual littleness of such parishoners and pray for them.
I’m sorry you’re unable to start your own ecumenical thread. I was confident it would have been entertaining.
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